#281 – From 40k a Day to Losing Over $1 Million! – Kevin King Shares a Cautionary Tale

You can do everything right with your online business, but volatile market conditions and the almighty Amazon algorithm will always have other plans. The man who needs no introduction, Kevin King, is back to discuss everything from forecasting and inventory management to product opportunities in the unlikeliest of places. 

As a bonus “peek behind the curtain,” Kevin also sheds light on his biggest e-commerce failure to date and what we should all learn from it!

In episode 281 of the Serious Sellers Podcast, Bradley and Kevin discuss:

• 03:00 – Kevin’s BIGGEST E-commerce Failure 
• 19:30 – How the Average Amazon Seller Can Avoid Disaster
• 23:00 – Kevin’s Newest Amazon Endeavor
• 26:20 – Kevin’s Prediction for the Future of Selling on Amazon
• 30:40 – Why You Should Never Immediately Give Up on a “Weak” Product Opportunity
• 32:30 – The Art of Putting a Twist on an Otherwise Boring Product
• 33:50 – Now What’s Kevin King Up to With Helium 10?!
• 35:00 – Freedom Ticket is Getting a Big Upgrade
• 40:00 – Are There Any New Selling Strategies Sellers Should be Aware of?
• 45:20 – A New Service to Get “Product Opportunity on a Platter”
• 50:40 – The Best Way to Talk to Kevin King (Directly!)    

Transcript

Bradley Sutton:

The one and only Kevin King is back to talk about something many Amazon sellers might’ve wanted to keep secret. A huge failure of his last year that resulted in the loss of over a million dollars and what Amazon sellers can learn from it. But he’s also got some huge news about the Freedom Ticket Amazon course. How cool is that? Pretty cool I think.

Bradley Sutton:

Hey guys, you know, we’ve had a few guests here on the podcast that worked for three Casio. Now, what’s the ratio is, is there a company that acquirees leading FBA brands from small business owners, just like you, they’ve got the experience of acquiring over 125 Amazon businesses. So they’ve seen it all when it comes to managing and growing an Amazon brand. So if you are thinking about selling your FBA business, visit [inaudible] dot com forward slash helium 10 to connect with the [inaudible] deal team. That’s thrasio.com forward slash helium 10. For more information on if your brand is a good fit for Thrasio.

Bradley Sutton:

Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Serious Sellers Podcast by Helium 10, I am your host Bradley Sutton, and this is the show that’s a completely BS-free, unscripted, and unrehearsed organic conversation about serious strategies for serious sellers of any level in the Amazon and Walmart world. Anybody selling online, we’ve got a wide variety of guests, as you guys know. And one of the all-time favorite guests on this show is definitely the King, Mr. Kevin King. Kevin, how’s it going?

Kevin King:

How’s it going, Bradley. How you doing Mr. World traveler?

Bradley Sutton:

Yup. Yeah, I’ve been traveling a lot. As you probably have noticed from my Instagram and different things, you know, I’m trying to catch up to your, what is it some ridiculous number of 55 countries you’ve been to? Or something crazy like that?

Kevin King:

Oh, come on. Bradley. Don’t shoot me short, man. You gotta have my back. I’ve been to 92.

Bradley Sutton:

92! I got a long ways to go. I’m still like in the thirties or forties or something. Okay, so I still got a long ways to go. We’ve got some exciting things to talk about today that have to do with the, you know, the Freedom Ticket program and some new thing that you’re working on. That seems exciting. I got to see a little sneak peek when you came visit us at the office a few weeks ago, but I thought that the first, like half of this show or something, we’ll do something that you and I haven’t done. And that some people sometimes are afraid to do. And that’s talking about an actual big failure. You know, I love talking about wins and everything. And of course, we celebrate those wins and it’s important that people understand the potential, but at the same time, it’s important that people understand that, you know, Amazon’s not always rainbows and unicorns. You could be one of the foremost experts in the world on Amazon and still have failure. So Kevin, are you down to talk about one of your biggest Amazon failures?

Kevin King:

Sure. Yeah, we can talk about that. You’re talking about the one that we shared at the Billion Dollar Seller Summit.

Bradley Sutton:

That’s the one.

Kevin King:

Sure.

Bradley Sutton:

Yeah. So let’s set the stage, you know, first of all, this was a company that you started around the beginning of COVID that had to do with, you know, like hand sanitizer. Now, had you already been planning to do a hand sanitizer kind of company? Or was it strictly because of what you saw happening with COVID? At the beginning of last year?

Kevin King:

So it all started a couple of years ago. I was working with– started putting together a company with a couple of partners that are based in Hong Kong. It’s an American guy and a British guy, and we were, they had one of their friends had quite a bit of money and kind of want to get in the Amazon space. And they came to me and they saw me speak at the global sources show over in Hong Kong and came over to Guangzhou and we met and they said, Hey, let’s do some stuff together. We’re really good at sourcing, you know your Amazon, we’ve got a guy that’s got some money, and let’s do something together. Like, all right, sure. And so we played around for about six, eight months or so with coming up with ideas.

Kevin King:

And then we decided, Hey, let’s do something in the sustainable business. And we created a company that makes products out of recycled ocean waste. And, you know, we put together the whole deal. We brought in like Scott Deets from Northbound. And like, you know, we’re going to build this thing to sell this in three years, I’m going to do what I preach. You know, what I teach and let’s build this right from the ground up, make sure the operating agreements all correct, and everything is set up, you know, perfectly from the start. And we, the money got wired over the initial investment, you know, several hundred thousand dollars with a line of credit into the millions. And, and we decided, you know what, let’s get this going. And right about that time, COVID hit really hard over here in the US. This was late February, early March before all the lockdowns happened, and my partners over in Hong Kong because they’re in the sourcing business.

Kevin King:

They said, Hey, you know, we got this in, on this hand, sanitizer made in India and we’re getting this stuff for like, I don’t know, 10 cents a bottle, and we’re selling it for like, you know, a buck a bottle or two bucks a bottle, over here in Hong Kong, you think there’s any opportunity on Amazon? I’m like, dude, I don’t want to get into that stuff. You know, this is another fidget spinner, another, a hoverboard type of thing. That’s just going to be a fad. And, and I was like, I don’t think so. And so they kind of proceeded on for about a month and we’re selling it in Hong Kong. And then it came back around like, dude, we’re, we’re really crushing it here. We can get this stuff. And I was like, well, let me take a look. And so I went onto Helium 10 and, you know, pulled up all the numbers with Xray from the past couple years and looked at some other tools I have.

Kevin King:

And I’m like, you know what? This stuff sells okay. Even in a non-COVID time. If we do this, every Tom, Dick, and Harry is going to be trying to come out with their own hand sanitizer and wipes and masks and all that, let’s do this and build a true brand. If we’re going to do this, let’s do it right. And so they went back to a couple of friends of theirs that had money and they said, Hey, you guys interested? They’re like, hell yeah, we’re interested. Especially when I showed them the numbers from March, you know, from Xray showing that you know, art naturals and some of these guys are doing just freaking crazy numbers, like $200,000 a day or something on each SKU or some crazy numbers, and let’s get into it. And I’m like, all right, if we’re going to do it, let’s build a brand.

Kevin King:

And so, but we can’t use these India guys because these India guys are not FDA approved. As we started looking into it, there’s a lot of regulations and stuff. And so, we had to find another factory in China to do it because we couldn’t find anybody in the US there was no supply. Around this time, Steve Simonson, who some of you know, he and I were talking, and he had been hesitant to get into it too, but he had ended up buying, I think some masks from somebody and they were selling like crazy. And so he said, Hey, you know, maybe I’d like to get in on this hand sanitizer business with you, Kevin. And let’s see what we can do. And I got all these distribution channels, in Walmart, and Costco, and, you know, I got this, all this other stuff, and maybe we can add wipes to this mix?

Kevin King:

Cause I’ve got a factory, a buddy of mine owns a factory up in Wisconsin. That’s usually makes flooring, the chemicals for flooring. And he’s had to lay off like 35 people. What if we put them back to work and we have like a made in USA and we do wipes since, cause we couldn’t get wipes. We were talking to wipes factories. And it’s like, yeah, we can serve you in a year and a half. You know, our production capacity is full. And so, Steve came on board and then these two guys put in a substantial amount of money. And we launched, and in June before we launched, Amazon came up with something called the COVID store and it, and they basically take in Purell and Germ X and all the big brands and kind of moved it over into this COVID store, which was restricted to hospitals and governments and whatever.

Kevin King:

So basically, people couldn’t afford this stuff and they’re trying to control it. We got approved for that. And so– cause I was seeing people selling on Amazon and getting knocked down left and right, you know, they’d have the hand sanitizer up and the next day it’d be gone. Because Amazon was trying to tightly control the market and didn’t want a lot of people in there with stuff that’s just not approved. So we got approved for the COVID store. We had a guy at Amazon that we hooked up with. That’s like a business development guy who ended up being a lifesaver, a number of times where I could just pick him up, call him on his cell phone, and say, Hey, this, we got this problem. He had to get it fixed for us. So I wasn’t having to deal with Seller Central. We launched the first one, first a hand sanitizers in June, and we were doing something where you buy three and we give one to charity and we did a huge branding around it. I mean, you know,  we created a gym, my wife created a jingle. Then we did, we did videos. We did really…

Bradley Sutton:

*Bradley singing the jingle* I remember that one.

Kevin King:

It’s like a little, pretty cool little video. And we did create a whole website and the whole nine yards. We go up on Amazon. We didn’t have the product yet, but I’m like, everybody else is selling and saying, it’s coming out of China. It’s going to take six weeks to get there. We should be okay. Especially with all the branding that we were doing. And so we went up, I think June 2nd of 2020. And at that time there was no PPC. While on June 3rd for hand sanitizers banned and PPE products. On June 3rd, they quietly opened it up. And somehow I don’t remember how I figured it out. I think it was just testing it. I was like, holy cow, this fricking works ads are starting to show up. And so we were one of the first ones to actually start showing up on ads after they had basically shut it off for a couple of months.

Kevin King:

And we just, and we were saying you know, the product’s not going to ship until July 1st or something, but order it now. And we started doing gangbusters like $40,000 a day without even having the product. And it was just blowing up $40,000 a day. Yeah, on two SKUs without even having the product to ship, you know, let’s say, delivery order June 3rd and delivery July 10th or whatever it said. So we were selling like crazy, no reviews, nothing, no launch. Actually, we did actually do a couple of search find buys actually just to get some positioning as and then when we came into stock we started shipping it and this was wipes that were made in the US and hand sanitizer that was made in China. Well, we had some problems, the first hand sanitizer smelled like stinky feet you know, the QC people didn’t do their job right. And when you would rub it on, people started complaining like, man, it smells like dirty socks or something. Oh my gosh. And then the wipes that we had made here in the US it was difficult to find packaging. Even to get gallon jugs or buckets or whatever, to put the wipes in. It was difficult. And so, we were having to pay this one guy, this cloth guy, and the owner of the factory is having to drive to Chicago to pick it up in his van and drive it back. And we were making these big, huge jumbo size wipes, big wipes. And we couldn’t get the buckets, the plastic buckets to put them in. We were having some made in China, but there’s just no supply in the US so we had to put them in like a big ziploc bag.

Kevin King:

And we found these guys that would make these big Ziploc bags. And they’d say, they’re leak-proof. No problems. They’re totally leak-proof. We guarantee it and we tested them. You know, we put some alcohol in them and like stepped on them and no problems. So we manufactured, you know, like 4,000 of these things. And because the cost of all the alcohol was shooting through the roof, our landed costs on these from the U S was like 30 bucks for it. This is a big box of 275. You know this is like a nine by 12 huge box. It’s not a little tissue size, but like industrial size, that’s all we could get supply on. And we were selling them for $90 a box, and they’re going gangbusters, just gangbusters on Amazon. And we stripped them out and we had to do some initial ones because we did advanced sales.

Kevin King:

We had to do an FBM. So all the advanced sales had to go FBM. And then once everything got checked in FBA, you know, switch it over. But we started shipping these out and we start getting complaints coming in from people saying, you know, “I received my product in a garbage bag”. We were like, what?! Yeah. It was like a big black garbage bag. You pick up garbage, you pick a, your leaves from your yard in. And I’m like, what?! I said, send us a picture, what was happening is some of these bags were leaking and the UPS trucks, and what the UPS would do is just take this bag. You take our box. It was kind of soaked and wet, or from leaking alcohol in it. And that was in with the wipes and throw it in a garbage bag and deliver it to the customer.

Kevin King:

You know, you can’t do this man. And so we started getting negative reviews around that same time with the hand sanitizer, there was a big scare with some Mexican hand sanitizers that were using an alcohol wood-based alcohol that was proved dangerous. And there was a lot of older people that normally don’t buy on Amazon and your grandmas and great grandmas and great grandfathers that were buying from nursing homes. And they started getting scared and they would mix up the names we used ethanol. And the one that was bad was called methanol with an M spelled the same way. You just put an M in the middle and then they’re getting, and so they would, they would get confused and write negative reviews. This is not safe. The government says, don’t buy this product. I’m surprised that Amazon allows you to sell it.

Kevin King:

So we were getting constantly taken down. We’d do a search, find, buy, spend 50 grand on a big promotion. And then the products would go down. Amazon’s algorithm would take them down. My guy would have to get it back up. It was a constant fight. We had one product go down nine times over the course of several months. And so we just kept losing momentum, losing momentum, and then we get back and start rocking again. And then boom, down again, there was a constant fight. And then we had to deal with EPA claims because on wipes, if you say it’s a disinfectant, then if it’s a pesticide, even if it’s used for your hands, but if it’s only used on your hands and you say, it’s just for sanitizing, it falls under FDA rules. So the Amazon internal system couldn’t recognize the difference. And so we were constantly having problems there.

Kevin King:

It was just a constant fight. And we ended up saying, look, we’re going to pivot more to the wipes. We saw the hand sanitizer was just too saturated. So like let’s pivot. We ended up coming out with another park where we fixed all the problems. We fixed the wipe problems with the leaky bags and boxes. We ended up getting buckets. We fixed the problem with the smell. And we came out with a whole other line. That was actually really good. If we would have had that from the beginning, we’d probably still be in business with that stuff today. But then we said, Hey, we could, let’s do wipes with isopropyl alcohol. Which is like the alcohol If you go and get a shot or, you know, or have your blood drawn. It’s what the medical people use it’s better. And we got a company in Vietnam, so that saved us the 25% Trump tariff.

Kevin King:

And these guys did an excellent job, really nice product. And when we came out and ordered a whole bunch of that, because we saw the Presidents or CEOs of the big wipes companies come out and say, yeah, we’re not going to be back on stock on Walmart shelves until the summer of 2021. We’re like, oh, we got a big runway here. And we can take some market share. So we spent a lot of money on that. And by the time we got those in, in November, and due to all the other issues with constantly getting shut down on Amazon for, by the algorithm, it got so bad. Our guy at Amazon even wrote a letter all the way up to Amazon legal. Saying, Hey, leave these guys alone. These are like one of the top sellers out there. They know what they’re doing.

Kevin King:

This is the type of people we want. Isn’t there a button you can flip on Amazon that says, these guys are approved? They’re okay. We’ve gone through all these hoops. And they’re like, no, there’s nothing we can do. And so it was just a disaster and we ended up at the end of the day lost about $1.2 million on it. Oh my goodness. We did over $2 million in sales in a very short period of time. But with all this inventory that we had, and we spent about 400, $500,000 in ad spend just to get positioning. And so we would do it at a high ACoS because we knew that let’s do this for a couple of weeks at a high ACoS. We’ll get to page one. And then, you know, organically, it’ll just take off. And we do that, get to page one, and then boom, the product would get suspended for some reason.

Kevin King:

At the end of the day, we had earlier this year, we had a 3PL in Washington that was storing everything for us. And they were getting concerned about the Fire Marshall come in, you know, this stuff is all hazardous. And it was 470 pallets of wipes and hand sanitizer.

Bradley Sutton:

470 pallets?

Kevin King:

Yeah. About $900,000 at our cost. Yeah. And we had to donate 100% of it. It’s completely gone now. And we donated 100% of it. We donated some to some charities. We had a couple of big charities that they just came and picked it up. A big trucks called convoy of hope came and picked it up. We donate it to some different homeless shelters, churches. And at the end we still had like 250 pallets left, or so. And we just basically put out a notice in the Seattle area and said, Hey, come and get it.

Kevin King:

And we had some points, this is a 3PL big warehouse in the Washington area had lines of 40 cars just backed up people coming and just filling up the trunks, filling up their backseats, whatever, with this much product that they could take until we got rid of it all. And so at the end of the day, we’re in the process of shutting that down. You know, we had taken a loan from SellersFunding, which we still got to pay off. As part of this, you know, to buy some of them, I mean, we had guys put in seven figures of investment, I lost a bunch of money. Everybody lost a bunch of money. Thank God that wasn’t all my money. But they’re not too upset about it because they’ve killed it in crypto. And they made that up so they’re not, they’re like, okay, you know, it didn’t work. Oh, well, but we’ve done well on some other crypto stuff. So luckily it turned out to be, you know, nobody’s mad at each other. Nobody’s suing each other. Nobody’s going crazy. It’s just one of those things that, you know, we get greedy. We just try to do it right. And we did it right. I mean, it’s a case study. I mean, if you saw the Billion Dollar Seller Summit and we did an, we showed all the emails, showed all the product packaging, all the jingles and everything. We did everything right. But despite that, market conditions and the Amazon algorithm killed us. And so a lot of people would say, well, Kevin, I thought Amazon was supposed to be this big thing. And you’re like this smart guy that knows it all.

Kevin King:

We did everything right. But still doesn’t mean everything’s going to work. You know, some people eat well and run 5 miles a day and they still die of a heart attack.

Bradley Sutton:

Sure, sure.

Kevin King:

Same thing with Amazon. Same thing can happen. And that’s basically what happened. It hasn’t deterred us, but we did put that other company on hold to focus on this. And it gave me a lot to do during the pandemic, you know, sit at home. I could work 12, 14 hours a day on this project and coordinating everything. So it worked really well, but at the end, it just didn’t work out. But it doesn’t mean that I’m down on Amazon or I think Amazon is a great opportunity. I think it’s still an amazing opportunity and still really good. And we’re now doubled down on our recycled plastics business. And we think that’s going to blow up really big and there’s something else coming behind that. So, I’m super stoked about selling on Amazon. Hasn’t changed anything.

Bradley Sutton:

Now, you know, obviously, hindsight is 2020 and, you know, I don’t think anybody could have predicted what happened last year and those kinds of things that were happening to you. This was completely kind of, you know, new trails that nobody’s ever experienced on Amazon before. But what would you have done differently? Or what can people learn from it? Because I mean, knock on wood, hopefully, there’s not going to be some brand new kind of pandemic that makes another product like hand sanitizer completely, you know, trending that’s kind of iffy, but like what would the average Amazon seller, or what should the average Amazon seller like take from your experience there?

Kevin King:

Probably the biggest in my partners would agree with this, is we overbought inventory. I mean, we did projections that based on what we were doing in June, July, and August, and we were trying to figure out, you know, where’s this thing going, is there going to be a cure? You know, coming in October, when’s the bottom. We knew there was going to be a bottom fall out. We knew that COVID is not gonna last forever, but we thought people’s attitudes would change. And so we thought figured, and all the statistics, if you look at all the big data companies that do these big, you know, $10,000 reports, they’re all saying the same thing that, you know, the sanitizer market that is going to be higher for years to come because of this, people are more conscious of everything. So we knew that but we knew that it would go down, but we are forecasting. We overbought on inventory. And part of that was pushed because it was just taking so long to get stuff in and shipped over. And, you know, these were coming as hazardous goods. So they had to go on special ships and special cargo. And it’s just, there’s a lot to it. But when we were doing the forecasting, I was telling my partners, guys, you know, let’s not spend this much. We need to cut this order in half. You know this is too risky. I know how Amazon works. This is their playground. They can make, they make all the rules. What if this happens? And this happens oh, we’ll just sell it to a wholesaler. We’ll get it somewhere liquidated. It’ll be fine. You know, in the end we couldn’t even liquidate this stuff. We had to donate. We put it out to liquidators, come take it, just pay shipping.

Kevin King:

And they’re like, no, we’re not interested. It’s just so much of it in the market. So it was getting, so that’s a little bit greedy, you know, we bought too much inventory. And so even though things are going well, it might’ve been better just to run out of inventory. And, you know, do some of the tricks that you and I teach and we know you’ll close the listing or put it, stick it to back to an FBM or whatever. And with a long flight date, then to buy as much inventory as we did. So that’s the biggest thing. And the second is I would caution people to anything that’s trending like this. I mean, we knew this going in, we went in eyes wide open is be very careful on anything that’s that could be seen as a little, it could be a fad or a big increase. Some people are gonna make money. And, you know, if we would’ve done this in February when a month before when the guys first came to me with the idea. We probably would’ve had a much bigger head start and we actually might’ve broke even, or make a little bit of money. So it’s all timing and inventory control and the ability to produce product. Now, art naturals, they cleaned up, they got into whole foods and they got everywhere. You know, they’d done probably hundreds of millions of dollars in the PPE space.

Bradley Sutton:

Yup. Okay. Well, I mean, that’s, I think it’s very sobering for people to hear that, and thank you for being transparent on that issue. And, you know, not a lot of people will want to admit that, Hey, they had had a “L”, that was in the seven figures, you know, like the negative, you know, talk about being a seven figure seller. You know, we had a negative seven figure issue here.

Kevin King:

Seven figure loser.

Bradley Sutton:

Seven figure loser. There we go. I love it. All right. Well you just briefly mentioned you’re doing, you have this new endeavor and I kind of wanted to talk about that a little bit because I got to see a couple of the products and you got like I don’t recall you being, you’ve probably done it before, but I don’t recall your products. You know, are you getting into licensing and things like that, but you’ve got a very unique product line that you’re coming out with and you even got some a big name to want to be on board with licensing it. Can you talk about that new endeavor?

Kevin King:

Yeah, well, we have this idea, before PPE, you know, the guys, as I was telling the story earlier, they wanted to team up with me and had the guy with the money to do whole– create a whole company based around products made from recycled ocean waste. So this is stuff that either is, you know, bottles and plastic and stuff that comes out of the ocean or rivers, or it’s, you know, littered around the edges of rivers or whatever. And you can take that stuff and melt it down. There’s a whole process where you melt the plastic down and in another company creates pellets out of it. And then you can take the pellets and make strings out and make fibers out of it. Then you can sew that into clothing, into backpacks and to all kinds of stuff. There’s you know, Adidas and Nike do some of that with some of their, some of their workout stuff.

Kevin King:

And so we saw a big opportunity there, and there’s a big movement towards that with a lot of people in the world, or maybe coming more eco-conscious. And so we’re like, what can we do here? And one that opportunity, my partner said was with these dog poop bags that were made out of this truly compostable material, you know, there’s a lot of dog poop bags on Amazon. It’s a very saturated category. I think it’s a one half a star or something on Xray if you pull it up and there’s some people crushing it, but most of those people that are saying that their bags are compostable, or earth-friendly, it’s BS. They’re not. It is, if you take it to industrial composting facility, they put it through these fancy machines, but most people don’t do that. So there’s a lot of fake advertising, a lot of stuff, that’s just flat out wrong out there and where they say this stuff biodegrades, it doesn’t, it may be does 50%.

Kevin King:

These guys had a factory that had bags that literally within a few months, go back to hydrogen and carbon and go back to nature. So if you’re, if you’re out walking your dog on a hike in the woods, and then you need to pick up his poo off the trail, you don’t want to carry it with you to no miles to the next trash can because you’re out in the middle of nowhere. If you just throw that over by a tree, it’s going to completely biodegrade within a couple months back to nature. Nothing left, no trace left behind. And if an animal comes and happens to eat it, it’s completely safe for an animal to eat it. It’s completely safe if that ends up in the water. And so, these bags costs a little bit more than the average bag so you’re not going to get, you know, bags for a couple of pennies a piece. When you’re buying like an Amazon brand or something of these. But there’s people that will pay for that and that want to support that. And so we decided to come out with that product. And when we were doing that, I had someone that I know from the Amazon space contacted me and say, Hey, Kevin, I know, you know how to do stuff. And we have I represent a company it’s one of the biggest companies in the outdoor space. It’s called Body Glove. You know, it’s a big surfing brand. They’re looking for someone to handle some of their pet stuff. Would you be interested? And I started thinking about, I was like, yeah, meet me. We’ve got these dog bags, but what are you talking about?

Kevin King:

And they sent me some of the products that some of the people had been doing in the past. And they’re like, they just weren’t happy with them. They didn’t know how to do Amazon. They tried it with like three different companies. And so we worked out a deal, a contract, you know, for licensing, we have to pay a licensing fee and meet certain minimums per year and we’re able to use their name. And so the idea behind that is instead of me having to build my own brand, we could basically leverage off of their 60-70 years of a brand building. And not only that, all their connections that are out there. And so I can go up on– and this is something I talk about in the Freedom Ticket is I think that the one of the big futures in selling on Amazon is actually licensing.

Kevin King:

It is a way to stand out. You know, I always give the example. I think I gave them the Freedom Ticket of like a flashlight. If you’re selling a tactical flashlight you can have the coolest tactical flashlight put up on Amazon. You’re just competing against everybody else. If it’s called, you know, Bradley and Kevin’s brand, nobody knows who that is. But if it’s, if you license get a license with the US army and say, this is a US army, a military grade, tactical flashlight, instantly, you have credibility. Instantly you stand out and there’s people that are looking for that kind of thing, and you can rise above everybody else. And so we decided to do that. And the first products are dog life jackets, PFDs for dogs. Cause we’re going to focus on the pet space. And so we’re combining where we’re creating these different life jackets for dogs and we’re using recycled plastics.

Kevin King:

So like the extra large one has it, or the large one has eight bottles in it. It’s eight, you’re like big water bottles worth of recycled plastic in it. And so they’re like 80% made of recycled. And we decided to go after the high end of the market and really make these killer bags. And, you know, the benefit we have is we put them up on Amazon in which we haven’t done the launch yet, but we’re already selling just by putting them up on Amazon with that brand on it. Where are we selling like five a day? Five or six a day. We have done no search find buy, no advertising, just throw them up. And it’s a competitive space. And body glove is like, as soon as you have your big shipment in. Well, we got influencers with 200,000 followers that are ready to push this.

Kevin King:

We got stores that are, you know, big sporting goods and other places and we sent them samples. And they’re like, these are like some of the best quality products we’ve ever seen. Cause I’m pretty good at creating high-end products. And like, Walmart buys $33 million a year of life jackets for humans from us. We could get you into Walmart, into the stores by making an introduction, if you can come out, you know, the price point’s too high now, but if you can come out with a slightly different version of this and engineering down in price a little bit, we can get these into Walmarts. You know, who knows what that could be. It could be five, 10, $15 million a year. Boom, right there, just because we have that license in that introduction that would, might take years or if ever to get in, if it was just Kevin and Bradley’s life jackets.

Kevin King:

Yeah. So that’s– it’s going to be a good test to see where it goes, but they’re so they’re happy enough so far that they’re coming to us with other stuff. And maybe putting together a deal where we’re creating an all-star team of Amazon sellers. So, we’re actually in the process of setting this up now for doing some things in the sports, sports space, exercise space with a licensed deal where we’re going to put together a team of all-star sellers to come in. People that are really good with logistics and someone else is really good at marketing. Someone who is really good at off Amazon selling and create this all star team and just blow up another licensing deal. So it’s, I think it’s exciting times and it’s going to be interesting. And I think that’s a direction a lot of Amazon sellers need to be thinking about seriously for the future because it opens up a lot of markets you can go into.

Kevin King:

Now, when we’re looking at a product, one of our criteria is right now is that the product has to look like it’s a good opportunity, even without the brand on it. So even if it was Kevin and Bradley’s brand, would I still do this product? And so that’s my criteria now for these first three products. And then once we get some data back to see if that really matters or not, or how much this brand actually matters and contributes, then we could shift, focus maybe, and go into markets that are more saturated that I might not go into otherwise, but we can because of the branding.

Bradley Sutton:

Yeah. I mean I hope people were paying attention there because, you know, there’s, you know, we talk about different ways, especially with Helium 10, like, Hey, look for product opportunity and, you know, use Black Box and use Xray and see maybe some people maybe find a niche where there’s not many reviews or nobody even has a product that matches the keyword, you know, kind of like what we did with coffin shelf and things like that. But remember guys, if you do end up landing in a niche, you know, whether it’s from Black Box or whether it’s just random, you know, finding a product opportunity on Amazon and you have the normal “indications” that it might not be opportunity or it’s too late, like, Ah, everybody’s got a thousand reviews and or this or that, don’t always just immediately give up on that.

Bradley Sutton:

There’s a lot of different ways. You know, one of the ways in Project X for when we did the egg tray like everybody had plastic eight trays, everybody’s got a thousand reviews, and high sales, you know, the traditional thought might be, alright, you know, just move on. But what we did is we went on Pinterest and Etsy and we’re like, wait a minute. All of a sudden wooden egg trays are trending everywhere. Maybe if we come in with something different, like a different material, wooden ones even though all these big guys have thousands of reviews, maybe people would still be interested in ours. And sure enough, that worked out. Another way is like, Hey, maybe everybody’s got saturated like this dog poop market, but you come in with something unique, like the only one that’s biodegradable or the only one that’s made from ocean waste. While all of a sudden, just the fact that everybody’s, you know, more established and it might be saturated that doesn’t matter because you’re the only one with that unique value. You know, all the eco-conscious people would absolutely pick yours, even though it only had three reviews, as opposed to, you know another one that had thousands of reviews because that’s what they like, you know, the another one is that Kevin just mentioned right now is the license. Sure. You could be you know, saturated in like a chopsticks market. But if you’re the only one with you know, Star Trek or Star Wars, licensed chopsticks will all the Star Trek or Star Wars fans, you know, they could care less that, that the other ones have like a thousand reviews. You know, they want to get yours because it’s got their favorite character or favorite logo or something on it. So, there’s a lot of different ways to sell on Amazon. Don’t just think, oh, I’ve got to find, you know, some unicorn market that nobody else is competing with. There’s, you know, a few ways to skin a cat here on Amazon.

Kevin King:

It’s hard. I mean, I, what Bradley just said is the gospel. For those of you listening, I mean, go back and listen to what he just said. It’s the gospel. I mean, on those dog, poop bags, one of the ways we differentiate them is we create a video where we actually drop one of the bags into some hot water. You see the bag dissolve before your eyes and then we drink the water. That’s proof that this goes back to nature and it’s totally safe. There’s a lot of times where I’m using Xray, you know, for my company products of mine. So I’m looking for product opportunities and I’ll come across something that’s one star, you know, an Xray and the people I got dismissed that no, I, there there’s a lot of great opportunities that are one-star on Amazon on Xray if you know how to put a twist on, like Bradley said, you know, and the egg trays thing, look at the wooden side, know this market is good, but there’s a, there’s another way to do it either with licensing or with changing materials or something. So sometimes you can, you can leave in there, especially if the market is deep, you know, and then the top three guys might have 10,000 reviews, but if guy number four has, you know, 500 and the guy number five has 300 and they’re still selling 30 grand a month or something you could wiggle in there and it can be a good little business.

Bradley Sutton:

Yep. Absolutely. All right. Let’s you know, I just mentioned how you were visiting the office a couple of weeks ago, and actually, the reason why he was doing that. Let them know, let the people know what’s going on. Why were you in the office other than the fact that you missed us.

Kevin King:

Most of, you know, that you know, I don’t work for Helium 10. Some people think I worked for them, or I was one of the founders or something. Manny and Gui are good friends of mine. I’ve known them since they started it. But I’ve never worked for Helium 10. I’m an independent contractor. And I just do the training for the Helium 10 Elite which is the advanced training and then Freedom Ticket itself which is the training for new sellers. That’s you know, if you got a membership to Helium 10, it’s included for free. You see a lot of people in the Helium 10 groups sometimes suppose, Hey, what’s a good course that doesn’t cost me any money. And people usually pipe down, like, you have a Helium 10, you’re here in the Helium 10 group. Why don’t you go to the Helium 10 Freedom Ticket course, it’s free. And you know, it got voted the best course in Seller Poll last year, we didn’t do any, you know, a lot of other people were hustling out there to promote themselves, go vote for us and go vote for me and, you know, trying to influence the results. And there’s a few people that did pretty well in there because they asked all their people to vote for them. We didn’t do that. Just naturally got voted number one as the best training course out there. It’s the most detailed by far of any course, that’s out there. And, you know, it was shot a couple of years ago, this 2.0. The first one was shot in 2017. Then we shot another one in 2019 Freedom Ticket, 2.0.

Kevin King:

And then we were like, you know, we need to update this, increase the production values, bring in some more experts and change it around. There’s a lot of change, a lot of new cool tools in Helium 10, new ways to do things. And we keep it up-to-date, but it got to the point where there’s enough new things that we need to change. We’re like, let’s reshoot this thing. So we spent, I spent a week out there at Helium 10, like Bradley said, and we reshot I think I did about 80 some odd, 80 or 90 modules that I’m leading and talking about. And there’s about 140 or so. 140 or 150 somewhere in that neighborhood. Total modules in there. So that 80 or 90 them are with me teaching a lot of things. And then Bradley has got quite a few where he’s showing you how to use some, some cool tips and tricks on how to use the Helium 10 tools and to do things and then we brought in 20 some odd guests that are just experts like the specialist in Manychat, or a specialist in Facebook ads for Amazon sellers, or specialists in writing listings, or how to set up your accountant, go through the vetting process and make sure you don’t have problems when you’re setting up your account. All those kinds of things. We brought them in, they contributed a module. And so I’m super excited to have this out there, you know, the team and Helium 10, every time it gets bigger. You know, first time I did it, it was me and a buddy of mine in basically in a little studio here in Austin with four students that were live there and we just taught it and kinda, it’s kind of a half-assed, I mean, it was good content, but the production values weren’t quite there Freedom Ticket 2.0, it was Bradley and I and the video guy and a couple of people on the team and it turned out pretty good.

Kevin King:

And now it’s like 50 people on the team involved in all these graphic artists, and video editors, and organizers and everything. And so I’m super excited to see how this one turns out and you guys are gonna be able to see it here shortly. It’s coming out very soon, and it’s going to get released, I think two weeks at a time. So it’s 10 weeks total of content. I think the runtime on something was it 40-50 hours of content, something like that. I don’t know the final number once it’s all edited but it’s 10 weeks and they’re gonna release it two weeks at a time. So, over the next, once it gets released within five weeks, you’ll be able to go through the entire thing and it’s great for new sellers but it’s also really good if you already have a business. I’ve had several people that say, Hey, I’m doing a million bucks on Amazon and what I need some course for, you know, I know what I’m doing, and I’ve had them come to us and say, you know what? I just curious. And I poked around in there and I actually learned some things that I didn’t know. So it’s great for you if you’re already selling, have your team, you have your VA’s. I think almost every new hire on Helium 10 has to go through Freedom Ticket that’s dealing with customers and stuff.

Bradley Sutton:

So it’s not the only way, you know, it’s complimented with Project X, you know, and I think there’s a new one to that coming as well. That’s going to be cool. So there’s not just one way to sell on Amazon, but we try to give you all the ammunition, all the tools that you need to really create your own path. It’s not a cookie cutter course, like, okay, here’s the 10 rules do this, do this, do this, do this. It’s how to think on your own and how to really come up with unique ideas and unique ways to sell. And they give you the best chance of success. And, you know, there’s other great people out there that teach as well that have courses. So it’s not the only course. But I think it’s a great one that everybody should go through and get at least a foundation. And if you like the style of somebody else that’s out in the space. No harm go into them, just be very careful on anything you see on YouTube or any of the free stuff, or any of the guys running a lot of Facebook ads. There’s a lot of scammers and a lot of BS and a lot of outdated stuff. So just be careful, but I’m super stoked to have this come out.

Bradley Sutton:

Yeah, we got a lot of updated things, you know, like we talk about things that we talked about in the last Freedom Ticket, but, you know, we updated it with new information for 2021 and 2022. And then we’ve got some modules that are brand new because they’re about things that didn’t even exist the last time we did, you know, Freedom Ticket like tons of stuff in, and in PPC, and other things that have changed so much in the last, you know, year to two years. So it’s really cool that we were able to update everything. And I think everybody’s going to get a kick out of it. So you Helium 10 members make sure to go check out the freedom to get it. If you need some information, if you’re not a Helium 10 member, go to h10.me/freedomticket and you can get some more information about this course.

Bradley Sutton:

Now for the last part of this show, you know, we always do something on the show where we call the “TST” or 30-second tips, but you know, I know better than to try and limit you to 30 seconds on anything here. So why don’t you give us some, like, you know, however long it wants, but, you know, let’s keep it under five minutes total here. Why don’t you give us some quick hitters on some of your latest strategies that you or your community have been finding success with?

Kevin King:

Yeah. Well, the best place to get those is at the Billion Dollar Seller Summit. So, you know, that’s the highest, probably the highest level event out there in the space. You got one of those coming up very soon. I do two of those a year, one virtual and one in person, but as far as a tip that’s working well, and it’s really something I learned from you Bradley, kind of part of your Maldives deal that you did. And that’s you know, we’ve even incorporated this into like products savants now with one of the reports we get. So in the new products, we actually show these opportunities where you take the top keywords from what I do is from brand analytics. I know, I think you talked about using Helium 10, but I take the top relative keywords from brand analytics for my product and you might have a list of say 20 or 30 of those. And then I go, and I punch those into the Chrome browser, amazon.com on the Chrome browser, pull up the Xray extension. And then I don’t really care what it’s all showing there. As far as stars and numbers and stuff. I go down to the, I’ll go up to the filters and then I filter it. And one of the filters on the lower right corner, when you bring up the lower right corner, where you bring up the filter screen, is title. And I just cut and paste that brand analytics, keyword phrase in there and see how many people actually have that in that exact form in the title.

Kevin King:

And sometimes it’s like the word hand I did this, here’s an example on this. I did with one of our hand sanitizer products. We had a bunch of a little 60 milliliter, which is like two ounce hand sanitizer bottles that were sold in the set of three. And when we launched it, we were trying to get rank on hand sanitizer, hand sanitizer gel, hand sanitizer travel size, hand sanitizer mini bottles, all those kinds of words. And after Bradley came out with the Maldives technique, I was like, that’s a pretty good idea. Let me go see what’s in brand analytics now. And there were words I do this monthly now because there’s new words that pop up in brand analytics that weren’t there the month before, maybe when you did your research six months ago. And one of the words that had come up was mini hand sanitizer party favors, and that didn’t exist, you know, last year when we launched this product, that keyword didn’t exist, but it might’ve been there, but there was no volume on it.

Kevin King:

So then I wonder how many people have that in their title? And the product has slipped, you know, because of all the problems we have, we were on page four for that, or page five for that keyword, when you type it in and you know, it was generating 10, 15 sales a day, something like that. I mean the top products on page one, 10 or 15 sales a day, for that keyword, and so I was like, let me see how many have that in their title. And so I ran, put that into Amazon pulled up Xray filters based on title. One person had it out of 60 or whatever the results were. One has I’m changing the title. So I went in and changed the title. And as soon as I did immediately in our product, got suspended by Amazon’s algorithm.

Kevin King:

So I had to get back up, but as soon as I, because of all the other issues, but as soon as I got it back up we went from page five to page one in a day and started selling instead of selling basically none. We were on page five off of their keywords, started selling probably three or four, five a day cause of sales went up three or four or five units a day just by doing that. And I was like, let me try that for a few other things. And I did that for a few other keywords and it did really well. I’m doing that right now on some of this body glove stuff. I didn’t go after the big, huge keywords cause we haven’t done our big launch yet, but I did the same thing, took the top 20 or so and punch those in and see which ones are not very competitive. And these are keywords that have, you know, a hundred thousand searches. They’re the 2000, 3,000 or 4,000. Put those in the title almost from day two or three were on page two. And as soon as I get one sale, a lot of times you’re on page one. And so that’s a great way to get some momentum going and to get the wheels rolling before you do a big promotion or a big launch. And I know you’ve done a podcast and stuff on this, and you did a huge research project with one of the launch services and it came with a formula and adjusted it. And if you haven’t paid attention to that, or haven’t gotten to listen to that, Go do it because it can make a huge difference in how much money you spend to launch and how successful and how fast you can launch something.

Bradley Sutton:

Yeah, guys, that’s episodes we go into detail on episode 250 and episode 200 of the Serious Sellers Podcast where we go into that, and actually, since we’ve filmed those episodes, we’ve done a couple of things on the Helium 10 side to make it a little bit easier to be checking the titles and keywords now in magnet and Cerebro, any keyword that comes up, you’ll actually be able to see now, you know how many page one listings have that in the title, you know, without having to go onto Amazon and count. So that’s another plus there. So, you know, Kevin, you mentioned productsavants.com and actually, today’s a momentous day because I’m like, you know what, I keep hearing all this hype about this stuff. You know, I want to invest in this and see what happens when Kevin King picks my product for me on Amazon, you know, I’ve done Project X, I’ve done project 5k. I don’t know what I’m going to call this, Project K, you know, or something that sounds like a cereal or something. But hey I’m going to test that out, but can you tell me what exactly, what does product savants do for people? So people know what we’re talking about here.

Kevin King:

Probably the way it started. Steve and I were talking a few years ago, partners with this with Steve Simonson. We were talking a few years ago at an event. And like the pain points, a lot of sellers have is finding new products. And then sourcing it. You could find opportunities, but then you can jump on Alibaba or whatever, but finding a good factory and sourcing this at a good price and really making sure you’re getting the right deal. It’s hard. And so we decided, you know what, there’s a lot of people that have these done for you services. Most of those are a joke. There’s people that have there’s websites, where you can go and they’ll give you a product idea for 150 bucks. But they sell that same idea to 50 different people.

Kevin King:

We said, now let’s do this right. And this is not to new sellers, but to experienced sellers because they’re the ones that have the least amount of time, but they also have the most experience and they have the money to invest. And so what, as I’m looking for products from my own businesses, I stumble across things that just don’t fit into my brands. You know, I may be looking for, as I’m scrolling through brand analytics, I’ve done webinars on this, and actually in the new Freedom Ticket 3.0 we show you how to use brand analytics to come up with some ideas. And I’m seeing stuff that looks cool, but you know, I’ve got a pet brand and I can’t sell something in automotive. I don’t want to really go set up another brand right now. I don’t have time, but someone else could do this and an experienced that I can run with this.

Kevin King:

So I’ll find a product opportunity that looks good. And I’ll vet it with Helium 10, with Xray and a couple other tools, just kind of a cursory vetting. And then I give it to our team in China, that Steve has got a team over there. And it’s been doing this for 27 years. It’s not just one guy. It’s not like one sourcing agents, it’s like a team. And they go out and they spend days, sometimes weeks finding factories, talking to them, seeing who’s reliable in pricing. And then every week, every Tuesday, Steve and I have a call with the entire team seven o’clock at night, my time, cause it’s morning in China. And they present us like, here’s the factories that we’ve found. Here’s the pricing. And look, Steven, I’ll go back and forth. We’ll go ask them if they can do this, do it this way, or add this variation or change it like this.

Kevin King:

And we’ll whittle it down. So where in the end, you know, probably 60% of the products don’t make the muster because we can’t get the good enough price from the factory, too much duty on it. It’s not enough margin, whatever, but about 30-40% of them make it through. And then what we do is we create as you’ll see, Bradley is, I know you just signed up for a product. We create a huge report and it’s like a 30 page report. It’s got like, it’s got Helium 10 data, it’s got some data from other sources, other software tools, some proprietary, shows all the competition, all the keywords, you have everything that you need, a listing analysis, introduction to the factory, everything. And we give that to you. And then it’s up to you. We’re done. So then you take it and you put your own twist on it and your own brand, your own packaging, you do the launching and that’s what it is.

Kevin King:

So it’s kind of like, here’s a product opportunity on a platter. Now your success or failure is going to determine on how well you can execute. And so that’s why we don’t, this is not for new people. So if you’re brand new and haven’t done a product yet. We won’t accept you. You have to have been selling. And everybody that buys a product. If you haven’t bought one before you go through a vetting process to make sure you actually know what you’re doing. And if you bought the product and you don’t, we just refund your money. And the products there’s an upfront cost. It ranges from a couple thousand dollars to $10,000. And that’s basically based on how, how good of a opportunity is the product. We don’t do anything that can’t do at least $10,000 a month in sales.

Kevin King:

And that basically just covers our upfront costs because typically by the time a product gets to that point where we’re presenting it to a potential buyer and we spent Steve and I each have 20 hours, at least in it. And our time’s pretty valuable. And then our whole team has some cases, hundreds of hours. And it’s always sad when we kill a product team has worked for a month finding suppliers. And then at the end, it’s just like, sorry, guys, this is not going to work. The numbers just don’t kill it. And then on the backside, there’s a 5% royalty. So that’s where we make our money. So if you’re not successful, we’re not successful. And so that’s what the product savants is all about. And we’ve had some very successful people that come back over and over for multiple products and are doing quite well.

Bradley Sutton:

Yup. That’s cool. So I was like, you know what? I got to try this out because I’ve told some people about it, but you know, I usually don’t like telling people about stuff. If I haven’t tried it out myself, I know you’re the same, you’re the same way when you, you know, mentioned vendors and stuff. So I was like, you know what, I’m going to put my money where my mouth is, and go ahead and give this a shot. So you guys will be in the next few months be getting some content about my Project K right there. Awesome. Anyways the website for that and billion dollar summit and things, you know, the ways that people can find you on the interwebs out there

Kevin King:

Yeah, probably just, you know, you can go to Facebook and that’s probably the best way. Yeah, the billiondollarsellersummit.com. It’s an event I do. There’s one coming up middle of September depending on when you’re listening to this, it’s in Austin and then there’s a virtual one in February of next year. And then another live one in August of next year. And then yeah, I mean, join Helium 10 Elite, or catch me on the Freedom Ticket Xtra. Actually, it’s probably the best. If you really want to talk to me one on one directly Freedom Ticket Xtra is your best way. Freedom Ticket Xtra. Freedom Ticket is a course that’s included with any membership level of Helium 10. So no matter what membership level you have, you have access to Freedom Ticket at no extra charge.

Kevin King:

4 Mondays of every month. I go on and I do a live Q and A. Actually three of those Mondays I do a live Q and A, these are usually an hour, hour, and a half, and there’s no pre-vet questions. It’s no, like, send me your questions in advance and let me choose the ones I want to answer. It’s all live. So you come on live, it’s in a webinar kind of format and you just type in your question. I read it out loud and I do my best to answer it. And we stay until every question is answered. And then once a month I bring in a guest that’s gonna talk for about an hour on a topic that we don’t cover in Freedom Ticket, or they’re going to go into more detail on something that we cover in Freedom Ticket, and you can see a sample in the new Freedom Ticket 3.0, there’s actually a couple of modules in there.

Kevin King:

There’s one, that’s a sample module from Paulina that you can actually see kind of what the guests kind of content is like. And then there’s also we shot a, I did one live in the office. I did one of the Q and A’s. And so I think there’s a short little you know, it’s edited down. It’s not the full hour, hour and a half, but you can get an idea of how that works. And that’s a great way to really supplement your knowledge and, and meet some other sellers and get some great information and talk directly to me through Freedom Ticket Xtra.

Bradley Sutton:

Awesome. So if you guys want more information on that, just go to h10.me/ftx

Bradley Sutton:

All right, Kevin, thank you so much for joining us. It’s super exciting to see the launch of the new freedom ticket and thanks for being transparent with your failures of last year. And it’s cool to see your you know, what you’re working on now. So we’ll definitely be talking to you next year. I’m looking here at the history, the reason guys, why I love having Kevin on this show, I’ve got this program that I use to record my audio. It just has my audio. And it’s like, kind of like think like a Richter scale, you know, how it shows the volume peaking only with Kevin. There are these like seven minute gaps, right? There’s nothing on my audio track because Kevin just talks and talks and talks. Like I was actually fulfilling some wholesale orders, a bunch of stuff while Kevin was talking, I just got tons of work done here because I know I can just like give Kevin one question and he’ll take it for like a good 10 minutes. So thank you for that, Kevin.

Kevin King:

Don’t forget everybody too to join Bradley and I by speaking to questions and answers. Bradley and I do every other week on Clubhouse. If you’re not on the clubhouse, look for the Freedom Ticket Group on Clubhouse and we do about an hour or so every other week. It’s on Tuesdays typically at 5:00 PM Eastern or 2:00 PM Pacific. When we, we have a nice group on there and we bring on some special guests and stuff too, so feel free to join us there whenever you can as well.

Bradley Sutton:

Awesome. All right, Kevin, thanks a lot. And we’ll see you later.

Kevin King:

All right. Take care, man.

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Want to absolutely start crushing it on Amazon? Here are few carefully curated resources to get you started:

•  Freedom Ticket: Taught by Amazon thought leader Kevin King, get A-Z Amazon strategies and techniques for establishing and solidifying your business.
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•  Helium 10: 20+ software tools to boost your entire sales pipeline from product research to customer communication and Amazon refund automation. Make running a successful Amazon business easier with better data and insights. See what our customers have to say.
• Helium 10 Chrome Extension: Verify your Amazon product idea and validate how lucrative it can be with over a dozen data metrics and profitability estimation. 
• SellerTradmarks.com: Trademarks are vital for protecting your Amazon brand from hijackers, and sellertrademarks.com provides a streamlined process for helping you get one.