#568 – Amazon Semantic Search & Google Indexing with Leo Sgovio

Join us in this episode as we sit down with Leo Segovio, a top expert in the space, to discuss a wide range of topics that are essential for E-commerce sellers. Leo shares his unique insights on how optimizing Amazon images can significantly impact indexing and ranking. He also opens up about his recent ventures, including a software project for influencer and affiliate marketing, and an intriguing Airbnb project in Italy. Additionally, Leo provides valuable tips for Amazon sellers looking to diversify their income by investing in real estate, highlighting the importance of strategic investments to complement a thriving Amazon business.

Listen in as we explore the evolving landscape of influencer and affiliate marketing strategies. We discuss how leveraging platforms like TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube can empower brands by building robust affiliate networks. We highlight successful brands and share advanced techniques for optimizing listings to ensure better visibility on Google and Amazon. Practical tips for using press releases on high-authority domains to improve Google indexing are also discussed, offering listeners actionable advice to enhance their marketing efforts.

Finally, we talk about the significance of Google indexing for Amazon sellers and the benefits of driving traffic from Google to boost Amazon rankings. We discuss the theory that paid traffic may hold more weight and the value of optimizing images with keywords to enhance discoverability. Additionally, we examine Amazon’s evolving search algorithms and how intent-based optimization is changing the way products are discovered on the platform. This episode is packed with valuable insights and strategies to help Amazon sellers navigate the complexities of e-commerce and achieve greater success.

In episode 568 of the Serious Sellers Podcast, Bradley and Leo discuss:

• 04:14 – Investing In Real Estate Investments
• 09:41 – Leveraging Creator Marketplace for Affiliate Networks
• 15:56 – Google Indexing for Amazon Sellers
• 18:16 – Google Traffic Boosts Amazon Ranking
• 24:01 – Google Indexing Boosts Product Visibility
• 26:46 – Search Algorithm Evolution and Intent-Based Optimization
• 29:13 – Optimizing Amazon Listings for Intent-Based Search

Transcript

Bradley Sutton:

Today we’ve got one of the top minds in the entire Amazon game back on the show, Leo Segovia. He’s going to be talking about a wide variety of topics, such as the impact on indexing and ranking by optimizing your Amazon images, and much, much more. How cool is that? Pretty cool, I think.

Bradley Sutton:

Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of the Serious Sellers Podcast by Helium 10. I’m your host, Bradley Sutton, and this is the show. That’s a completely BS-free, unscripted and unrehearsed organic conversation about serious strategies for serious sellers of any level in the e-commerce world. And speaking of the e-commerce world, I’m on the other side of the world right now. For those of you listening, maybe I sound a little different. We are in the AVASK office here in Madrid, Spain, right in the middle of our Elite Workshop, and just about 15 minutes ago we had our very first speaker. All the other speakers are very mad at him because he started off and he set the bar really high with his talk, but we’ve got no stranger to the show, Leo Segovia. Leo, how’s it going?

Leo:

Bradley, good morning. How are you doing?

Bradley Sutton:

Doing great, doing great.

Leo:

Awesome. Yeah, this morning was great. I’m actually happy this is my first time in Madrid. Yes, I actually just stopped once. I think I was on my way to Puerto Rico, but yes, I got to enjoy the city. Today I’m here at the AVASK office in Madrid, so happy to be here and happy to be your guest again.

Bradley Sutton:

Awesome, awesome. So now you know it’s been a while since Leo’s been on the show, so let’s first just catch up with what you’ve been up to. Have you been launching products on Amazon? You’ve just been focused on building software. What have you been up to the last couple of years since you’ve been on the show?

Leo:

Yeah, it’s been a crazy year for me actually. I’ve been involved in a couple of different projects. We are obviously always looking for new products to launch. What kept me very busy in the past year has been software that I’ve been working on for influencer and affiliate marketing, and actually this Airbnb project in the south of Italy, which has been kind of a roller coaster. Yeah.

Bradley Sutton:

So, you actually moved, I remember you went from Canada to Florida and then a few months ago you moved back to your home, uh, country of Italy, but then this was always meant to be kind of just like a like a winter, uh or summer home for you.

Leo:

Yeah, that is correct. Uh, I have a family in Italy. So, and recently their area of Italy is called Puglia, it’s in the southeast was becoming more and more popular and more expensive, and so I decided to buy a property there so that we could spend a week or a month in the summertime, perhaps, when in Florida is too hot, you know, go inside of Italy. Invite some of my Amazon friends, you know, mastermind, and so that’s the plan. Now, I was supposed to be there only for a couple of months, just to see what was going on, but when I got the keys, I realized that the place needed a lot of work, and so I’ve been stuck in Italy since November, actually, of last year, and I’ll probably stay there until for two more months before going back to Miami.

Bradley Sutton:

What passport do you have? What country passports? I have Italian and Canadian passport. Okay, so then, when you bought this house, you use your like Italian citizenship?

Leo:

No, actually I well, I could participate to an auction because I bought this place at an auction. Not the $1 ones, it was more than that. But yes, because of my Italian citizenship it allowed me to participate to an auction. But everything that I’m doing is as a Canadian citizen. It works out better from tax perspective and all that.

Bradley Sutton:

Okay. So that’s why I was asking about this, because I think this is, you know, like somebody might be jumping on the show. What are we talking about? Airbnb here? But as e-commerce entrepreneurs, Amazon sellers, maybe we make a little money, maybe we’re not interested in exiting our business, but now we have extra money, like do we start other businesses? You know, maybe something that has nothing to do with Amazon, but I hear of more Amazon sellers doing something similar. Where they go you know, not necessarily Italy, but another country, buy a house and then so, as a Canadian citizen or as an American citizen I would assume it’s about the same. What’s the process of participating, like in this Italian auction to be able to buy this house?

Leo:

I think you need to have someone in Italy or a friend, someone with an Italian citizenship, in order to buy a place at auction. Otherwise, you just have to go to a real estate agent and buy a regular place. The reason for me it was convenient is because it was a good deal. If I was able to win the auction, and so in real estate, you make money when you buy, not when you sell. Right, if you buy for less, that’s most likely guaranteed revenue or earnings whenever you sell, and so that’s the reason why I did this. Now, I don’t know exactly the process if I didn’t have any Italian citizenship, but yeah, a lot of entrepreneurs you know, especially Amazon sellers whether, when they exit or you know if they’re already doing quite well and they have good cashflow, they normally tend to invest in real estate Airbnb’s. You secure yourself passive income from that, and it’s always a good investment.

Bradley Sutton:

So then would I have to have all cash though to once the auction closed, I can finance over there.

Leo:

Okay. So that’s an interesting thing. I was going to finance the project. I ended up buying a cash because it just made more sense for me, but in Italy they actually give you a mortgage as long as you can prove that you have income outside of Italy.

Bradley Sutton:

Okay. And then so you calculated out, like how much you can maybe get an Airbnb. And then so have you calculated hey, for the other months of the year where I’m not staying here, I need to rent this place out x amount of time of the year. And it’s going to be worth it, have you like, and did that analysis?

Leo:

Yeah, so in this specific region of Italy and the location of what I bought in August for a place with a pool and four or five bedrooms, you can charge 5,000 to 6,000 euros a week. So you make your money in the summertime. Ideally, as an investor, you don’t want to go and spend time in the summertime there, but you want to go, perhaps either early, like May or September, when the season starts to kind of slow down and so you don’t take out money from your profits, right? So my plan is to rent it out June, July and August. If I have some good offers in September, maybe I’ll rent it out, otherwise I’ll go myself there in September or May, but, yeah, normally throughout the year.

Leo:

You know Italy is a destination where you have a lot of tourism during summertime, unless you’re in Rome or Venice or Florence, which is always busy throughout the year. You know south it’s a summer destination, right. So you get a lot of tourism summertime. Wintertime dies down, so you probably can get us or what you can get in the summer. But you know it works out well because if you have a small apartment, for example, in a big city, and you are charging, you know, 200, 300 a night? Um, at the end of the year you make the same money. So with this kind of properties is a little bit of a different um investment. I went more on the luxury kind of market, hoping to work only with Americans. You know foreign tourism, but in my opinion it’s a great one.

Bradley Sutton:

Okay, so there you have it, guys. You know, like, maybe you’ve had some success on Amazon and you’re thinking of what kind of things to invest in. You know, getting a property at a low price and maybe fixing it up even though it’s a headache a little bit, you know could be the route that you want to go. Now you know we’re going to talk a lot about some really cool Amazon strategy coming up, but you’ve been developing some software lately for a while now. That’s not necessarily for on Amazon, but it helps Amazon sellers. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Leo:

Yeah, I’ve been working. The software is called Spliced. I’ve been working on this for about two years now and I was supposed to be already in market, and the reason why I’m late is because of what I just explained. It took me, you know, it took resources and energy a little bit off the other project, but now we’re ready to go, and the reason why I built this software is, you know, Bradley, you know I have Convomat, which was my first software that I built, and then Amazon changed it to iOS, and so I had to find a way to pivot. But I already knew that influencer and affiliate marketing was the way to go, also for us Amazon sellers, in order to have a little bit more control over the traffic, over the business and the revenue that we drive to our brands. And so, with Spliced, my goal is to leverage the creator’s marketplace, which is huge between TikTok and Instagram and YouTube, and leverage that to build affiliate networks for your own brand.

Leo:

There are already a lot of sellers out there that are doing a good job when it comes to affiliate marketing. Look at a brand like Goalie. Goalie, one of the key strategies for Goalie was actually the affiliate marketing, and so with Spliced, my goal is to allow brands to look up into our marketplace, which has already been built with we have over 20 million creators and then approach them with an affiliate partnership instead of just UGC content. This is the reason why we didn’t build in Spliced, just UGC campaigns. There’s already plenty out there of softwares that you can use for UGC, but in my opinion, if you have a solid affiliate network, you can keep launching new products, relaunching the same products. We use it for reviews. If you need something like that and you have more control over your business, and if you decide to launch your D2C website, you can leverage the same network and start pushing traffic off of Amazon. So there are a lot of reasons why I believe people should use a platform like that. It’s like building an email list, but instead you’re actually leveraging the creator marketplace.

Bradley Sutton:

Okay, yeah, interesting, I think TikTok how it works, people’s eyes are really open to more of influencer marketing. I mean, it’s basically influencer marketing. There’s not really SEO on TikTok, or it’s not even. Even if you understand the hashtags, it doesn’t necessarily guarantee the rally. It’s a numbers game like getting you know. You get out to 25 influencers and maybe 24 do nothing, and then one person, even though they’re small, they get on the For you page or something like that and literally can bring thousands and thousands of dollars. There’s somebody I’ve been helping with, you know, shipping their products and they’re you know they’re doing me sometimes some days a thousand fifteen hundred units of sales for like this planner and it was a hundred. They didn’t spend any for PPC on TikTok 100%. You know they just push the product to influencers and then one here and one there just goes viral and it just means a lot of business.

Leo:

Yeah, I think you know it’s probably right now a big hype. I mean the TikTok shops everyone is talking about them working with affiliates and it’s probably one of the oldest marketing strategies, if we want to call it that way. You know the affiliate marketing works because of the power that the individual creator in this case has to influence people right, and so people want to buy from people, and if you, as a brand, do a good job in recruiting a few super affiliates in this case we’re talking about good creators that will turn into affiliates, then you have to worry less about that promotion part of you know launching new products.

Bradley Sutton:

Interesting, interesting. Okay, now let’s move a little bit back towards the Amazon world and actually I’m going to go a little bit off of Amazon, but it’s something that you talked about today in your speech and we’re not going to go too deep into it. If you guys want to really hear his presentation, you have to be an Elite member. So you Elite members definitely make sure to look out for the recording on that. But one thing you were talking about when it comes to images, but the way you discovered this was you said you were checking indexing on Google. So we know, on Amazon, if you want to check indexing, you just use Helium 10 index checker, right? Or if you don’t have Helium 10, you can use the old school method of put the ASIN plus the keyword and then search and see if it comes up. For just rudimentary index checking for keywords. If you want to see if your Amazon product is indexed on Google, how do you even see if you are?

Leo:

Yeah, so normally on Google you will copy your URL, search it on Google. You can also do a site column with your URL and then Google will show only search results that are related to the domain you’re searching. But if you type the whole domain, the whole URL, the canonical URL of your Amazon listing, if you are indexed, it will show there.

Bradley Sutton:

But what about if you’re? Can you look if you’re indexed for a specific keyword?

Leo:

So if you’re indexed for a specific keyword, then you want to put that URL plus the keyword and then or amazon.com/dp/your ASIN, or you can also do ASIN in quotes plus the keyword and then you will see if you get, if you’re indexed on Google from that keyword. It works in a similar way. Um, but yeah, the presentation we touched a lot on you know the details of what was going on Google which was dependent on, uh, the way that the listing was optimized on Amazon.

Bradley Sutton:

You talked about some advanced strategy. We’ll talk a little bit about that, about like images and stuff. But without the images, is there a way to force yourself to be indexed on Google, like, for example, if you create a custom canonical URL, just insert the keywords and then if you actually happen to you know, like maybe run some Google ads, get some conversions on that, will that index you for that keyword on Google?

Leo:

Yeah, so, based on some experiments that I’ve done, the easiest way to get indexed on Google is to publish some press releases on domains with good authority score domain rank and have your you know pointing a link to your listing with the anchor text that you potentially also want to rank for using that specific canonical tag that you get from your Amazon listing. So the reason why this works better is because normally Google indexes across these websites. Like you know, if you publish through PR, news or something like that, they will be crawled, and so Google will find these links and then follow your Amazon listing, which obviously, as a consequence, would be indexed.

Bradley Sutton:

Okay, interesting. Now, taking it a step further, why should an Amazon seller even be concerned about indexing on Google like, um? Obviously, if you’re running Google ads, you know your goal is to get direct sales from it. But just being ranked organically, um, what kind of bumps do you see on sales? Or how does it help a to be ranked high? I’m not just index. I mean index doesn’t do much if you’re ranked on page 30 or something, but how does ranking organically for a keyword? What’s the potential there for helping sales?

Leo:

So there, are a few reasons why you want to be indexed on Google, and for the most, let’s start from the most advanced ones, right? Advanced sellers they normally try to send traffic to Amazon, especially during the launch period, using external traffic, right? So Google, we know, is a good referral that tends to help your rankings, and so Amazon tends to reward you if they see traffic coming from Google. So if you’re not indexed, you lose a chance to show Amazon that you are getting traffic from Google. Now, I have a theory that paid traffic has a little bit more weight than organic, but the reason why you want to be indexed and the reason why you might want to be indexed for certain keywords is so that when you drive traffic through the URL to Amazon, you can actually give attribution to that keyword. That’s number one, right? So you can actually use these URLs as your two-step.

Leo:

Number two if you do a good job with your indexation and your listing is optimized, you actually also appear in the images, right? And so if people are looking for specific products, sometimes I search on Google using images because I’m looking for specific products that might be hard to find on Amazon, but if I look through the Google images and I find the product, then I go to Amazon, and so if you’re not indexed, you’re also not going to be able to be found there, and Google images actually gets a ton of traffic. So here are some of the reasons why, two of the reasons why. I can think of many more, but the most important are these ones. Google is still one of the largest search engine, and so missing out on that opportunity, I’m afraid it causes a lot of missed visibility for an Amazon seller at a listing level.

Bradley Sutton:

And then you’ve done some tests before where you noticed that if that Amazon can read what the search was from Google, so that when you get sales from a keyword in Google, it also potentially could help your Amazon ranking for that keyword, right?

Leo:

Yeah, that is correct. There was a test that we have done two years ago where everyone was talking about Google traffic and so we drove traffic straight from Google paid to Amazon without using any keyword in the URL, and then we noticed that for the keywords that we were actually bidding on, we saw a lift in ranking. I remember going from position I think it was 35 or so to position seven or five. So surprisingly we saw that Amazon was able to attribute that search query on Google and then the ranking as a result for the keyword was actually improving on Amazon as well.

Bradley Sutton:

Okay, interesting, interesting. Now let’s switch and talk a little bit about images, because this also has to do with ranking on Amazon. It has to do with ranking on Google, getting indexed in Google. What has more of an impact with getting discovered or being able to be read by Google? Is it if you have an infographic and the actual words appear in the infographic, you know on the actual image, or is it the metadata, or it only works the best if you’re doing both?

Leo:

In my opinion, you have to do both, and the reason is that right now, every search engine uses AI to detect subjects, text and everything on an image. You know, if you look, if you’re a Facebook advertiser, you probably know that they’ve had this for a long time. If you add more text on an image than the image, the visual itself, your ad wouldn’t have been approved, and so AI detection for images has been going on for a while. But now, since you know, ChatGPT came out and you know Lama from Facebook, we have, you know. We know we have a lot more information about this topic, and what we found is that the search engines, including Amazon and Google, they scan the content of your image and they’re able to rank these images based on the content of that image, including subjects, context and in the subjects and text. Did I say that?

Leo:

So, basically, what Google cares the most on top of that is also the metadata, because the metadata helps the search engine classify that image. So, while the content itself helps them understanding okay, this is what this image is about the actual metadata is more technical for the crawlers, the engine themselves so that they can place you in certain categories. And so when it comes to Amazon, the content on the image right now, I noticed that through some different experiments, that is being used for ranking reasons. And so if you look at some products that don’t have, for example, keywords on the images, they are less. You know there are multiple factors. Obviously, they play when it comes to rankings, but if you put two products side by side same ranking, same ratings, same being on market for the same time period, timeframe and same price one has text on images and keywords and one doesn’t. Most likely the one with keywords on images is going to rank better.

Bradley Sutton:

Okay. So then what Amazon sellers should be doing is for their main images, or you know, the in their image carousel and their A+ content is I mean, obviously you can’t have text in your main image. You know that’s against terms of surface, although if you can have the packaging there, that’s a good, that’s a good opportunity. But then to get, hey, you use the right keywords, but then also, if you’re using like photoshop or something you have and we’re not going to go into detail, it’s like there’s a bunch of crazy stuff about copyright and there’s fields there that he talks about in his presentation. You’ll have to watch the Elite workshop for that. But you’ve been doing testing where it one has, it one doesn’t, and then it gets you indexed on Google. You’ve actually seen where the ones who did it, their Amazon sales were like way higher than the ones who did it.

Leo:

Yeah, that is correct. We analyzed an e-brace on Amazon and this is, you know work that I was doing with a friend of mine, and we were trying to understand why these competitors were actually indexed on Google and they were indexed for certain keywords. Not the main keyword, but a variation of them. And so what I did I created this Google sheet where I was helping me understand which ones were indexed and for what keywords they were indexed and that led me to see that the ASINs that actually were indexed on Google were indexed for keywords that were present on the A+ banners. And so when we did that, what happened, this happened within 48 hours, we noticed that Google indexed that specific product image and they were actually featuring it as a search result on Google for the main search query, so that image wasn’t used as a snippet or thumbnail for the listing itself. So the URL wasn’t amazon.com/dp/ASIN, it was amazon.com/ the search you know embrace.

Leo:

So it took me to the search results page, but the image that they took as a featured image was actually the one of my client, and so that was very interesting because Google detected a refinement and it detected an update in that listing. It saw that that image was very relevant for the search query because of the way that we optimized it using metadata and then they used it as the main image on the Google search results. Now this, to me, is fascinating and is very important, because if you are a shopper and you’re searching on Google for an e-brace and then you see this image, most likely that’s psychological,   most likely when you land on the Amazon search results page, you’re going to go and find a product, you’re going to go and click that product. So that added traffic, that added conversion rate, helped us recover the racing and the sales that we were losing. But that was a very interesting experiment that we did.

Bradley Sutton:

Interesting, okay. So again, if you guys want to get more information about that, that almost might be worth it just to subscribe to Helium 10 Elite for one week, just to get that presentation. So if you guys want to look into that, go to h10.me forward slash Elite and see it’s only $99 extra, so make sure to sign up for that. Now, another thing that I think a lot of people have been talking about not just you, but you were one of the first ones to talk about semantic search and Cosmo and things like this, and we’ll talk about what that means. But I think, just to set some groundwork, I think everybody understands that any search algorithm will evolve over time. That’s the whole purpose. Like the companies who don’t want to do well, they’ll just keep their algorithm the same right. But anybody you know whether we’re talking about Google, Facebook, TikTok has an amazing algorithm, Amazon. It changes over time and we’ve seen that.

Bradley Sutton:

You know, if we were searching five years ago on Amazon, it’s different. And now if you’ve bought some how many of you who have bought something you search for a keyword that has to do with that and that thing that you bought is now at the top on your Amazon maybe not somebody else. That didn’t happen like five, six years ago. Last year we showed an example of how you search a keyword that doesn’t really exist. It’s called noodle camera and no listing has the word noodle camera in it. But there was like maybe 30 listings that came up and it was like a stethoscope camera it looks like a noodle. So five years ago you put noodle camera it would say zero results because nobody has that in their listing and these listings don’t have that keyword in there. But it’s showing up because Amazon shows history that, oh, people don’t know what this is called stethoscope camera but then they think it looks like a noodle. So now it’s showing listing. So we’ve seen this even for a year. Now, first of all, Amazon science documents we’ve talked about it, but maybe 80%, 90%, never actually is 100% in production. Sometimes it goes into production, sometimes it doesn’t. But what was it that made Cosmo so interesting these documents that talked about it, that you’re like man. This is something that you think that Amazon is going to move towards.

Leo:

Yeah, the reason why, I think is something that would be applied at scale across the marketplace is because, as searchers, as buyers, as shoppers, our goal when we use a search engine is to find a product or information that we need in order to solve a problem. And so, as a technology company in this case we’re talking about Amazon their goal is to improve, like Bradley said, the algorithm in order to simplify that search result and give you exactly what you’re looking for, by burning some steps in the middle, right. And so that’s what Cosmo is designed for. Cosmo is designed to be a man in the middle, between yourself and the search results, right, when you work together with it to give feedback back and forth. And so what they do right now they learn. You type a search query, they give you some result, you refine that result by clicking on some products that you think are relevant. And what they do with this information? They start building this knowledge graph, right. So a classic example if you go on Wikipedia and for something, Wikipedia normally links to other relevant sources. That’s what they call the knowledge graph, right? They know that this is relevant to that right. And so what cosmo is trying to do, instead of you having to refine the search. They’re refining it for you.

Leo:

So the example that I give in my presentation this morning is that, if someone is searching for winter coat, we saw a product that ranks number one on Amazon that doesn’t have the word winter coat in the title. But yeah, they’re ranked number one, and so this is shocking, right, like everyone’s like oh come. Title is supposed to be the most important element on the page when it comes to optimization and some SEOs, but this time Amazon understood that you are looking for something that keeps you, to keep you warm, right. So now we’re shifting from a keyword-based search to intent-based search, and so, as sellers, right now, what we need to do is understand what is the actual intent behind the person. What am I selling this to? I’m selling this to someone that wants to stay warm, right, that’s what the purpose of a winter coat is, and so, with that intent in mind, we need to optimize listings so that we can convey the message through images, through the title, bullet points and description, so that Amazon, the new Cosmo, understands that this product is something that helps people stay warm.

Leo:

And what I think is going to happen also because of the shift in the way that these search results are built, which is more intent-based, is that Amazon then will start recommending also related products. So if you’re looking for, if you type in winter coat, they say, okay, well, this person is trying to stay warm and so let me show them also some winter gloves and winter socks and maybe some winter boots, and that will change everything right. They will change the way we advertise, they will change the way we try to be associated with other products. They will change the way we also promote our listings. So that’s very interesting and fascinating, but I think it’s a good thing for the buyer, right, while for our sellers might be challenging to figure out again, how do we optimize our listings keeping this semantic concept in mind for the buyer? And they’ve already proven. If you look at the Amazon science document in the research papers, they’re already saying that they’re seeing a lift in conversion rate when Cosmo is applied to a search result page. So we must pay attention to these and monitor certain. It’s challenging right now to understand where this is applied, but we need to monitor better the Amazon marketplace and then evolve and adapt as Cosmo gets released into more categories.

Bradley Sutton:

Not to be controversial here, but to me it’s almost it’s different, but it’s not different. Like, at the end of the day, Amazon wants to make money, right, so that winter coat that became number one. It’s not number one necessarily because of new algorithm, because it would not be number one unless that is one of the best converting ones, because that’s what gives Amazon the best chance to make money. But I think where the difference here is, or what’s something that’s quote unquote new, is it gives people more at bats. Like maybe I never. Even if I didn’t have winter coat in my title, it might’ve been almost impossible for me to get on page one. But now Amazon is all right, let’s just throw it here. Oh, shoot, look at that, how well it’s converting. Let’s go ahead and push it all the way to the top, whereas maybe you know, four years ago, you know, unless you were super optimized for a certain keyword, you would never even have the ad back. Like you would never even be able to get on page one, you know, outside of PPC or something. So to me that’s like the difference, but something also. Again, I keep saying I don’t want to be controversial, but it’s going to be because there’s a lot of people I respect in the industry who have been talking a lot about things that and I agree mostly with them. But I completely disagree when they say things like, oh, tools like maybe Helium 10, if they don’t change it’s going to be out of date. To me, I cannot see a world where the traditional forms of keyword research, are going to be not as important In the future, if Amazon is super intuitive, of course that’s going to evolve.

Bradley Sutton:

But the main reason we do keyword research is to get indexed and to also make our listing. Initially because the Amazon algorithm is based on buyer interaction, right. So once it’s been out there for three, four weeks, they have so many data points and how people searched and what they clicked on and stuff that. Okay, now we can start doing advanced algorithms. But to even get it in the right pages you had to have done the regular keyword research to show Amazon. Because when you’re brand new, day zero of your listing, Amazon has no idea what it is. It goes by the image, it goes by what you have in the title and how you have it. So my personal opinion is that no like. Of course, little things are going to change with keyword research here or there, but the main core of hey, let me find the most important keywords. That’s not going to change because you have to tell Amazon on day one what is your product.

Leo:

So, Bradley, I agree with you and I think there is one important detail that is the link between what you’re saying and what this all semantic stuff is about. Right, the reason why that winter coat might be ranking number one, even though the winter coat is not in the title is attributes of the winter coat. You know Amazon right now, which before they probably weren’t doing before Cosmo, right, they’re looking at the attributes. So most likely they are ranking this one very well because it contains, uh, goose feathers, or they have 300 grams of goose feathers per square meter or whatever foot, and so they now are using these attributes to understand is this product warmer than this one? So, while the keyword research tools are always going to be needed, what I think is an opportunity for companies like Helium 10 is now provide additional information to the seller together with the main keywords. That helps also the listing be more relevant for Cosmo, using attributes related to those keywords. So, if the keyword is winter coat, what are the main attributes of coats? Right? What does a coat have to have? Waterproof, has to be warm. What kind of feeling? Is it polyester? Is it goose feathers? Also, is it long or short? Things like that are going to be the difference between the traditional keyword research tools and the semantic powered keyword research tools. If you guys give the sellers the same list of keywords and, by the way, here are some attributes related to these keywords, that will help Amazon Cosmo understand more about your product. I think that’s the winner, in my opinion.

Bradley Sutton:

Yeah, and in his presentation he talked a lot about different things you can do to be more semantically relevant and you know, using ChatGPT, so some really good features there. But that’s important because you know, the it’s not just, we’re not just talking about Amazon SEO, it’s also going to help you on Google and Bing and these, these other things and there’s things that just the human mind we can’t process, but a computer can process and tell you hey, this is, this is the keywords with the buyer intent and this is the most important, this is how you can relate yourself. So, regardless of how much of this Amazon develops, it’s already important now for outside of Amazon indexing. Now, before we get into your last strategy, and I have just a couple of questions for you if people want to get more information, reach out to you, find out about your new project you’re working on, or just reach out to you. How can they find you out there?

Leo:

I have my own website right now. It’s leosgovio.com, so you can reach out to me on through my website.

Bradley Sutton:

And spell that, because it’s not spelled exactly as you might think.

Leo:

It’s l-e-o and then s as in Sam, g as in George, o, v as in Victor, i o. Yeah, over there I have some information also about the semantic SEO stuff. So if you’re more interested about this, I’d be happy to share my knowledge in depth, and LinkedIn is one of the platforms that I use the most.

Bradley Sutton:

Excellent. All right Favorite Helium 10 tool?

Leo:

Magnet

Bradley Sutton:

If you were a head of product at Helium 10, what is one tool or function that you would bring that we do not have currently?

Leo:

I believe I will combine what we just discussed about into one tool, and so it’s an hybrid between a listing analyzer powered with recommendation based on the semantic stuff.

Bradley Sutton:

And your 30 to 60 second tip can be about anything for sellers out there.

Leo:

Leverage. Try to think about your current strategy when it comes to product inserts. To leverage it for UGC.

Bradley Sutton:

All right guys. If you want more information, go to leosgovia.com. Check them out in the Helium 10 Elite, the Q2 workshop replay. But thank you, guys, so much for joining us and we’ll definitely be reaching out to Leo next year to see what he’s been up to.

Leo:

Thanks, Bradley, I appreciate you having me again and, yeah, looking forward to the next one.

Bradley Sutton:

Adios desde España.

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• Freedom Ticket: Taught by Amazon thought leader Kevin King, get A-Z Amazon strategies and techniques for establishing and solidifying your business. 
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