#409 – Best Amazon Tools & Dead Product Resurrection – Part 2

In this episode, we continue our interview with Brandon Young, and we start by discussing how he prioritizes his physical health as an Amazon entrepreneur. The conversation continues with his reason why selling on Amazon with the FBA model is about project management and what specific strategies you can implement to get your brand to the next level. Helium 10 Cerebro’s new features are big. Learn why Brandon thinks it will impact your business and why you shouldn’t be afraid to buy tools and education. We also talk about Amazon releasing more data points and what it looks like in the future for Amazon-owned brands. Make sure to listen until the very end for his 60-second tip for Amazon entrepreneurs!

In episode 409 of the Serious Sellers Podcast, Bradley and Brandon discuss:

• 01:50 – Physical Health Matters And Managing Health Issues
• 06:20 – Talking About Products Experiencing The Amazon Death Spiral
• 08:00 – Business Is All About Traffic And Conversions
• 12:30 – Project Management Implementation For Your Amazon Business
• 16:30 – Helium 10 Cerebro’s New Features Are Big
• 19:40 – Talking About The Different Sponsored Widgets
• 22:50 – Don’t Be Afraid To Buy Tools And Education
• 23:30 – Amazon Has Been Releasing More Data Points
• 26:00 – Amazon’s Brands May Be Separated From The Marketplace
• 29:00 – Brandon’s 60-Second Tip
• 31:00 – How To Get In Touch With Brandon Young

Transcript

Bradley Sutton:

Today’s a special part two of two in an episode series we’ve done with Brandon Young. And we’re gonna go over strategies on how to resurrect dead products, the importance of project management, SOPs, and more. How cool is that? Pretty cool I think.

Bradley Sutton:

Are you an agency enterprise level seller or an eight or nine figure seller and need advanced analytics? Market Tracker 360 might be the product for you to get a demo of Market Tracker 360, go to h10.me/mt360. That’s h10.me/mt360. Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of the Serious Seller’s Podcast by Helium 10. I am your host Bradley Sutton, and this is the show that’s a completely BS-free unscripted, and unrehearsed organic conversation about serious strategies for serious sellers of any level in the e-commerce world. And this is actually, like I say, said in the intro there second part of a two-part series with Brandon. So guys, if you are just somehow landing on this episode and you have not listened to episode far away, pause this guys or otherwise, the rest of it’s not gonna make sense.

Bradley Sutton:

Pause this, please go back to episode 408, either h10.me/408. If you’re watching this on the website or if you’re watching this on YouTube go back to find episode 408 or on your podcast player. Go back and listen to 408 before you listen to this one. But today this is the second part and it’s gonna be a good one. Hope you guys enjoy it. Now, what about on the physical side? Like do you have any exercise routine or diet routine or something that you and or your wife are doing

Brandon:

Now for the last three weeks? I tipped the scales like, so I’m undergoing. So this is, this is a story and a word of caution for everyone. The same, same you had a much bigger scare, but I’d say going on two years ago now, I went into the hospital with severe abdomen pain. I thought I had appendicitis and I ended up being diverticulitis. So just like an inflammation of your intestines and, and your stomach and like an infection. And so what they do is they typically put you on a liquid diet for a couple of weeks with a lot of antibiotics, but then they follow up with a colonoscopy to make sure there’s no permanent damage, no bleeding, it didn’t hemorrhage or anything like that.

Brandon:

So when I went in for that, I was 40 and just 40. And they found two huge polyps that they said they removed, they zapped them away with a laser while they’re in there. And typically as a male, they recommend you’d go in for your first colonoscopy to check the plumbing at 45. And the doctor told me that this infection that I had, basically that forced me to get it early, saved my life. These two polyps were cancerous. And if I had waited till 45, it would’ve been full-blown colon cancer and I probably would’ve died. So that prompted me to say, okay, what else am I missing? And so I did a full body scan with an MRI and they found a nodule in my lung, a two millimeter nodule in one of my lungs.

Brandon:

Now, that could be from scar tissue, it could be from anything. Over 50% of adults have nodules in their lungs, and most of, I think less than 1% of the time, it’s cancer, right? But they said, look, in a year and a half or a year, like do a follow-up scan just to see, I recently did that a few weeks ago, and it turns out that it grew. So usually scar tissue doesn’t grow. So now I’m on the fast track to take care of this. It’s only five millimeters. It’s on the small side. Usually, they don’t even biopsy or do anything until it’s eight or more. But lung cancer is one of those things that if you catch it early, the survival rate is insanely good. But if you catch it late, the mortality rate’s insanely high, right?

Brandon:

So this is just like a lot of people like us who are entrepreneurs working 70 hours a week, we don’t usually prioritize our health, but what I would say is don’t put off these checks, whether it’s prostate. Prostate’s another one that I’ve heard that if you live long enough as a male, you’re going to get prostate cancer. If you didn’t get prostate cancer, you didn’t live long enough, apparently, is the way that it kind of works. So it’s like almost all men get it, so don’t wait to get these things checked. Yeah. I found a center that did this MRI. MRIs are very, very, like no radiation, so you don’t have to worry about long-term effects. And I think for Jennifer and I both, it was like under 2000 bucks. I mean, it’s not cheap, but when, in the grand scheme of things, if I didn’t have visibility on this thing in my lungs and I waited four or five years from now, I’d probably would be a completely different story from the way this is likely gonna turn out. And so I would say, yeah, like you’re saying, don’t neglect your health, but also try to figure out what you don’t have visibility on. Do some scans, do some checkups and make sure you’re taking care of yourself so you’re around. There’s no point in being rich and making all these millions of dollars. Yep, yep. If you’re just gonna be gone in a few years.

Bradley Sutton:

Yep. I mean, if  we’re trying to tie it to Amazon, it’s the same thing. If you’re just reactionary, you wait until your competitors do same thing or wait until the market changes or something it might be too late and you can’t recover from that. Even more important than your Amazon business. It’s your own health, you know? So don’t just wait till something bad happens. Do some of this prevention stuff. I really like that. Really great stuff there. And good to know that you’re hopefully gonna be okay from these things. Now, this is bad timing for this word, but I was gonna talk about next on my list was the Amazon Death Spiral. That was something that Casey talked about. So this is something that he was the first one I heard talk about it like a couple of years ago, like a Dillion Dollar Seller something I think it was.

Bradley Sutton:

And, and other people have noted, even I, myself and some older mature listings where you just can’t, like, you lose your rank at the top of the page and no matter what happens, you just can’t get it back. Even though you’re the top converters of a keyword and like, you can’t get past position 10 or something like that. And other people have theorized, oh they, they look at that one special URL and say, oh, there’s some hidden keyword abuse. And if you have that, then that might be happening. But you deal with so many brands and have so many clients. I’m wondering, in your experience, have you seen this where these mature products just like hit a wall all of a sudden? And then is there a way back from that?

Brandon:

So it really depends on the relevancy of the keyword and then how much history is accumulated. And then, and then also the additional credit you’re getting. So our strategy for trying to send more traffic is a little bit different. Let me first of all say that I try to make this super relatable for everyone, every single business, right? Like, it doesn’t matter what business you have, like I’ve done my best to try to think of a business. And it’d be interesting if you have a business in mind, and you can put it in the notes and tell us. But every single business comes down to just two things, traffic, and conversion. And so if you think about having a hotdog stand on the corner of a street, your traffic would be all the people walking past that or driving past that.

Brandon:

The conversions would be the people that stop and buy a hotdog, right? And so if you’re selling the hotdogs out of a cooler, you’re gonna struggle to sell a lot to have a lot of conversion. If you have a beautiful stand and you’ve got aroma and you’ve got great looking images, and there’s a line, you’re gonna convert a lot more hotdogs, right? So what I’ll say is with Amazon, it’s no different. You’ve got drive traffic and traffic only comes in two places, paid and organic, right? And then you’ve gotta convert that traffic. Now you talked about the one keyword that you’re best converting on, or at the top, and you’re struggling. The way to think about it is going back to our talk about the attribution, and the way the algorithm gives attribution to a lot of keywords would be to think about how do I get a lot of partial credit to that keyword without just trying to maximize my bid and slam a bunch of paid traffic at that keyword, that one keyword?

Brandon:

And what we’ve done is we’ve started grouping our PPC by root so that it performs similarly. It’s easier to manage, it’s easier to see the movements, but also we’ve been turning on, going a lot wider with long tail keywords that share that root word so that one click and one purchase isn’t going to be enough. And sometimes, even if you’re taking half of the PPC sales, it’s not enough to push you from eight to six or eight to five. Maybe it’s enough to get you to eight from 10. You need to find other places to get credit for that keyword to push it. So the way that we’ll do that is we’ll find 30, 40, 60 long tail keywords that have that same root word in it.

Brandon:

So if it’s a dog bed, and I’m really trying to push my rank on dog bed I’m gonna find 60 keywords with dog bed on it that are relevant to my product, and I’m gonna group those into different campaigns, like six keywords, 5, 6, 7 keywords per campaign. And I’m gonna be very aggressive with sending a lot of high converting traffic to all of those long tail keywords. And I’m gonna get a lot of credit towards dog bed, right? So that’s a method that I would say is maximize your conversion rate. Step one is, so you want to make sure your images, your content are better, make sure your offer is better. So maybe these new competitors that are beating you have a better price. Maybe the look and design and feel of their product is just something that resonates with buyers. So step one, you mentioned conversion rate. Make sure that that’s right. Don’t send traffic to a listing that doesn’t convert. You’re just wasting your money. Again, don’t set up your hotdog stand like a cooler, right? And then the second thing would be send more traffic that will impact rank, which is going to be sponsored product traffic to related keywords that share that reward.

Bradley Sutton:

Okay. Good. Good stuff. Good stuff. Now going back to DataDive. This is something I haven’t really seen even a video on it, but I just heard that, might have seen on your LinkedIn or Twitter or something that you’ve come out with something it’s kinda like Monday or something like, like project management. And so I would venture to say that of Amazon businesses that are smaller, like less than 30 employees, maybe less than 20, the great majority of these entities are probably not even using some kind of project management software at all. And so what can you say is I’m sure you created this in day die for a reason, but what would you say to these people? Like, Hey you’re probably not using this cuz maybe you might not come from a corporate background and stuff where, where this is like mandatory, but what are people leaving on the table when they’re not running some kind of like, project management software, even if they only have like three or four employees?

Brandon:

Yeah. The thing is with Amazon, for us to run an Amazon business, it’s a little bit different than even just being a solopreneur. Like if you’re just managing your calendar well, and you’ve got visibility on your projects and you’ve only got a few projects that you’re working on with some random type of business, maybe you can get away with just keeping it in Google and your calendar and taking good notes, right? But the nature of our business is that if we want to launch five new products this year, we have to analyze 500 products, right? Like deep, deep analysis. I’m not talking about just find and take a quick glance at them. I’m talking about doing a deep dive into the competitors, the keywords that drive sales. Like how good is the competition? Is the ROI there, all that go through that whole checklist, right?

Brandon:

And so what ends up happening is as you’re running through these sprints for product development, and then you’re managing the products that start to move through this pipeline from idea to validated getting samples, and now it goes to product development and design, and then it goes to order, and then it goes to logistics and, and shipping, and you need visibility there, and then it arrives and then you need to launch it. And maybe it’s bouncing you’ve got inventory management happening in there, and now you’ve got launch growth and maintenance and PPC and optimization and all the things happening once it launches. You’ve got so many phases that a product runs through when it starts as just an idea. So what we wanted to do is give each of these think of each product as a football and as you pass the football from one team member or one phase to another, we want you to have full visibility on it.

Brandon:

And we don’t want you to lose visibility on it because what ends up happening is I might research 200 products and think three or four or 15 is a good idea. And then it starts to get hard to manage where is what is happening with each one. Well, did I communicate with this supplier? Did I get these samples? What about these other products? Did I finish validating them? Okay, is this one on the way, it’s on the water? What’s happening with it? Right? So project management, even if you’re just running the business yourself and you’re just starting out and you plan on launching five products next year, you kind of need to implement some kind of system, whether it’s a Sona, whether it’s Monday, whether it’s DataDive, whatever it is, you’re going to need to keep visibility on all of these different ideas and then pass it from team member to team member.

Brandon:

What becomes good about all of these software is that you can put someone in charge of one of these processes and as the manager, as like the owner of the business, the operator of the business, once it’s in their hands, your SOPs, your standard operating procedures should then take over. So that person knows that when something gets assigned to them, what they’re doing, they’re doing A, B, C, D, and E. And then once they get done with A, B, C, D, and E, they’re passing it to the next person, right? And so now you can start to scale a business. Now you can go from five products being launched the next year to five per month, and 10 per month. And it becomes so much more scalable as you can manage these teams, these processes, these products, and everything that has to happen as these products go from process to process.

Brandon:

So that was the thesis behind building that into the software, which was, you know what, people are taking this business, they’re doing all this research, they’re finding these products, they’re validating them, they’re writing them, they’re doing all these things with them, and then they’re going out into a Sonaor Monday or whatever they’re using, or Trello. And then they’re building these processes out, whereas it can kind of stay in the here. Like we can kind of just let them pass the buck back and forth and make notes and make this much smoother.

Bradley Sutton:

Okay, good. Good to know. Good to know. So Helium 10 Cerebro, you’ve probably been one of the power users for years for that. Anyone on your team, do you guys have access to one of our Elite-like level accounts?

Brandon:

I don’t think so.

Bradley Sutton:

I gotta get you that because we have some cool stuff. Lemme just get your input on this. You probably haven’t seen these inactions yet if you don’t have elite, but for example, now we have historical Cerebro available. So it’s like, hey, yeah, sure. Of course, Cerebro is very powerful in itself, what’s going on in the last 30 days. But if I’m doing some his if I’m doing research cause I wanna launch a beach ball, and it’s December, what is in Cerebro, what’s on Amazon now is not necessarily indicative of the main keywords.

Brandon:

I gotta tell people listening like how powerful that is because we launch a ton of seasonal stuff. Our biggest brand is a toy brand. And so we do summer things, we do Easter, we do Thanksgiving, we do Halloween, we do Christmas, right? So when we’re working three quarters ahead, when we’re doing October, right? When we’re doing Halloween, it’s Q1, right? Like we’re, we’re, we’re placing those orders and finalizing those orders coming into March and April so that we make sure that they arrive in time. So all the product research that we’re doing is, we’re thinking three quarters ahead at all times. And so it’s really hard to do Halloween keyword research in January. And so this solution sounds phenomenal. Like I definitely wanna play with it. I think my team needs to plug in and start using it immediately.

Bradley Sutton:

Love it. Yeah. For me, like before this, the only visibility in like historical, which is still valid in itself, is looking at brand analytics, but it’s somewhat limited because you’re only looking at the top three clicked products or something and no, a hundred percent you can’t easily do queries

Brandon:

Beyond that too, like what we would have to do is kind of guess the keywords til like the season and then rewrite the listing, right? As the season’s going, because you’ll see keywords that were 200 search volume all of a sudden become 20,000 and we didn’t prioritize it. We were thinking that these other six keywords and roots would be good. And so our team is constantly having to, you should iterate anyway. Like honestly, like your team should be using the same practices. But what we would have to do is look at some of these competitors, what they launched the previous year, and then just look at historical BSR and say, you know what, this one sold a lot during Halloween last year, but now like, okay, so maybe we need to do something similar to that design or something similar to that product, but we have no visibility on keywords for it. Yeah. This is gonna be, that’s a game changer. That’s awesome. Yeah, that’s definitely,

Bradley Sutton:

Alright, cool, cool. Yeah. So, so this way, no, you can just say, Hey, show me the Cerebro for this month of the year, sometime in the last two years. The other new thing that we have that I know you haven’t seen, and it’s just starting, we don’t have too much historical data yet, but starting in December of 2022 one thing that’s big for me that I noticed in 2022 is just how many different sponsored widgets Amazon has all over the place. There’s the trendy now widget. There are four stars and above, there’s an editorial recommendation, and there’s the Amazon’s choice. Like, it’s just so many different sponsored placements on page one. So now going forward, Elite members can see you enter an ASIN or a group of ASINs, instead of just seeing where they’re at organically and sponsored, you’ll see ones where, hey, they’re also showing up on this keyword for editorial. They’re also showing on this keyword for, you know from our brands or, or something like that. So it gives you a lot of visibility into the real estate of page one. Because just looking at the regular sponsored placement and organic? Gone are the days where that tells the whole story of the share a voice kind of.

Brandon:

Yeah. Because it’s to the point where the majority of products, 30 to 50% of the sales are made up from paid ads. And if some of ’em, even more than that, a healthy percentage used to be like, you didn’t want it to exceed like 35%. Now 40, 50% is more normal, right? So, if you’re not seeing where they’re getting their sales from, when are you gonna trickle some of these down? Now a lot of people ask, like listening might be like, oh, you’re just trying to get more money from us for different things. Look, as a software owner, I can a hundred percent tell you these things are really expensive. There’s a reason that they have to charge you more for these things anddon’t feel bad, but like, just understand how powerful the tools are and how to use them in your business. And believe me, you make one right decision because of it. It pays for it for the year.

Bradley Sutton:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Elite, we’re back to the old days where you couldn’t just, not anybody can just get in like we close it 95% of the year, like probably nobody can get in there until March is probably the next time. But yeah, that’s exactly why we’re it. It’s not that we’re trying to bleed our users, but it does cost money t have these kind of functionality. If it didn’t, then every single software tool company out there, we just have it as part of their regular stack.

Brandon:

Yeah, I wish it was just free, right?

Bradley Sutton:

Of course, that would be the best.

Brandon:

The reality is it costs every single time you run a Cerebro. Look, Bradley’s not gonna tell you this, so I’ll whisper it. It’s a secret. Every single time you run a Cerebro, it’s costing them pennies. And you might think pennies don’t add up, but you have to think about how many users they have and how many Cerebro dives they’re doing. And it, believe me, it adds up. If you’re using Cerebro a lot

Bradley Sutton:

DataDive customers are having a nice chunk of.

Brandon:

So believe, look, I don’t know if this’ll get cut out later, but trust me, like if you’re using their tools too much, they might lose money on your subscription. So that’s why they, they tier you for different levels of usage. They tier you for different a la carte options. Like they have to as a software owner, otherwise they’re gonna lose money. And at the end of the day, like they’re an amazing tool that has made us millions of dollars they’re gonna make, and they can make you millions of dollars. So just understand, don’t be afraid to buy education or tools because that’s the quickest lever. Like you need them. Believe me.

Bradley Sutton:

Last question of the day for you speaking of tools is Amazon has just come out with a lot of tools and I just have this while. I’m usually not a conspiracy theorist. We all follow a couple of those kind of people on Instagram and stuff, where they put repost weird and strange things. But this is my version of conspiracy theory. It’s like, to me it’s boggled my mind how much data Amazon is showing. Like stuff that at first it was just stuff that they used to show only to vendors or if you paid like $30,000 for a special reports and stuff, and then it’s stuff that like they weren’t even showing to vendors before. like Product Opportunity Explorer, and then of course Brand Analytics. that’s, that’s my favorite thing that Amazon has ever come out with even to this day.

Bradley Sutton:

And then new versions of search, career performance. But then there is that thing that just passing Europe where, where, where Amazon is like reiterating that they absolutely will not be using data that’s not public to try and like help their own brands. So like, my conspiracy theory is, and I’m not trying to throw Amazon under the bus, like this is totally logical to me, is that, hey, the more data they make public to everybody, well now, now they can go ahead and use that per what they just agreed upon. But regardless of the reason of why they’re doing it, I think we can all appreciate. Hey, it’s great that Amazon is showing more things. It helps helium 10 it allows us to validate more data and we as sellers give us more data points. But my question to you is, of all these things that Amazon has been releasing, what’s your favorite one

Brandon:

I love the search volume that they’re giving when they, when they give you real search volume. Now, people don’t understand that you’re the pioneers, like of with the reverse ASIN and with Cerebro and giving search volume for, for keywords, right? Like, and a lot of this is done in backdoor ways, and then you’re validating with Amazon, then you’ve got an algorithm running and so it’s close, right? But it’s, it’s not exact. And now your engineers I’m sure are working very hard on the backend. And if they already haven’t already started rolling a lot of these things out, they will be where you’re gonna use and benchmark the data that Amazon’s giving you in order to make your data even more accurate for users. To me, that’s the most like, important thing because I wanna know what keywords to prioritize and why.

Brandon:

And generally, it’s gonna come down to how are people searching for the product. Remember, traffic is like the part one of that formula that we talked about that matters for business is traffic and conversion. So we wanna make sure we’re prioritizing keywords that are gonna get us the most traffic organically. And so yeah, anything that they do that gets us more data on all four, I think it’s gonna make tools like Helium 10 better. It’s gonna make us better and let us make better decisions. And I agree with you. I think that Amazon’s banking on the fact that they’re gonna be able to use this data in a better way than competitors to make sales. And I think that at some point Amazon’s brands will be ripped apart from the marketplace. So they’ll be separated and that unit will have to operate separately.

Brandon:

Because think about it this way, they just announced that they were getting rid of 50% of the products that they have, that they own. And a lot of people are like, wow, that’s crazy. Now they often make ac take actions in response to things. But if you think about the ROI calculation that you make as a brand owner, which is my landed cost, my selling price, my FBA fees, my ad costs, right? If I factor all those things in, I get an ROI. I made $5 on this $25 sale, and it’s great. Now Amazon has to take that same formula to get to $5, right? They saved a little bit of money on the FBA fees, right? Because they make money on us every time they charge us for FBA fees. There’s a little bit more money there added, but they have to subtract the alternative cost of someone else making that sale instead of themselves.

Brandon:

So if someone else made that sale, then they would be receiving the commission, they would be receiving potentially the ad click. And so they’re basically cannibalizing third party seller income by taking these sales themselves. And so once you take that $5 and you subtract the alternative cost, maybe they made a buck, and that buck as an ROI is not worth it for them to now deal with laying out the capital the supply chain, the logistics, the overhead, the employees to manage it, and everything else that went into that. And so their ROI calculation is far different than ours. And so by chopping off the bottom 50%, they’ve actually increased their profit significantly because they don’t need to have those products available on Amazon. As a matter of fact, two years ago, they banned over three and a half billion dollars worth of products like revenue. Half of it was Chinese sellers, half of it was other sellers, and it was all cheaters that got caught and stuff.

Brandon:

And they banned three and a half billion dollars in revenue off the platform businesses that were doing three and a half billion. But they didn’t lose a single penny because as soon as a product was removed from the search results, another one from number eight to number seven and number nine to number eight, and that vacuum of demand was filled instantly, and the shoppers didn’t know the difference. And so all they’re doing by removing themselves is now increasing their bottom line. But the ones they do keep I think are they’re, they’re banking on themselves to continue to do a better job than us sellers. And I can tell you that they’re not as good as us.

Bradley Sutton:

Yeah. All right. Well we like, like we close every episode we do it with our SST, our 60-second tip used to be called 30-second Tip. That was the last time you went on the podcast. It was 30-second, but nobody ever keeps it 30. So that’s why I changed the first letter to an S and now it’s a 60-second tip. So what’s your closing 60-second tip for our listeners out there?

Brandon:

I think it’s don’t skip the step of setting goals in your business. I think a lot of people set loose goals, but I think when I say setting goals, I mean going through proper business management processes. So whether you follow something like EOS, which is from Traction or 40 x or there’s any number of these books that you can read, scaling Up, they all have basically the same thing. You set a goal, you work backward. So my tip would be get aggressive, set a goal, figure out what resources you need to achieve that goal over the next quarter, and then four quarters, and then what are the leading activities you need to do every single day, every single week to march towards that goal? And what resources you need to pull that lever. So don’t skip that step. If the faster you implement that in your business, the more you’re going to achieve and the faster you’re going to achieve it.

Bradley Sutton:

Awesome. Well, Brandon, thank you so much for this. This is, this episode was so good. We had to split it into two just to make sure we got everything in there. So I appreciate you taking your time out, right during the holiday season for this, and wish you success in your endeavors. And guys, if you wanna reach out to Brandon go to hub.helium10.com, and type in Seller Systems. That’s the link to find out about Seller Systems, Inner Circle, DataDive, and all of Brandon’s endeavors right there. Any social media or anything you want to throw out there for other ways to follow you out there?

Brandon:

I think that’s good, man. It’s always a pleasure and I appreciate it. Happy New Year, brother. Hopefully get to see you soon and hang out.

Bradley Sutton:

Thank you so much, and we’ll be seeing you sometime next year.

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